Bush “passing marks” – “the Horror.”

I don’t think the author(?) was a historian.

Yes, of course, convict Bush/Cheney et al.!

You said a mouthful, Collins. And not censoring the internet is what the Chipmunk is bragging about when he extolls free speech in America (while “interpreting” the Constitution’s First Amendment to allow worse than Mayor Daley-like assaults on peaceful prostestors at national political conventions).

Even the Chipmunk’s minions can see what the “Left” in America can’t face: like in the 1970’s, almost everyone to the left of Michael Lerner thinks Now’s The Time to get our agenda before the American public!! But the American public… Is it really any more ready for the Left than it was in 1975?

Well, maybe it is. But for a squabbling and divided and backbiting Left? Fagiddaboutit.

Myles, Powell doesn’t deserve a pass. He gave that UN Speech and that’s enough for me. Bugliosi is working from the public records. I suspect when one of Powell’s aids turned, there would be a flow of information (I’m not sure Bugliosi knows Powell participated in torture “choreography” – a real indicator of a troubled soul and guilty man.) Florida was stolen when they did the voter purge. Congress funded it after it was started so they’re guilty to, those voting YEA.

Having said that, I am 100% with Bugliosi, as all who want justice should be, imho, because he is right, dead right, on this particular issue. This is a big part of the issue of our lifetime. Will the guilty be held accountable? Will the cycle of cold malice be ended?

Jeff Bartlett, we agree in analysis but not on the value of the outcomes. I believe strongly that just one prosecution like this would send the ravenous foreign policy adventures into a very long dead calm. The rulers need to know that killing citizens for the financial benefit of their friends is over. It started before Eisenhower but let’s take him. He allowed an attack on a sovereign nation in Central America for a fruit company. That’s just one of scores of large and small military actions that had nothing to do with our national security.

Were this to occur, citizens would move form anonymous sacrifices for a grateful oligarchy to autonomous individuals who carry the primary value in society. Nice change. I’m glad you enjoyed the arguments, however. Quite a tour de force in that regard.

Bozhidar, let them pardon him. Let them spread the final truth – it’s a total fraud. Sow the wind, reap the whirl wind;)

DRL, indeed, what is that common denominator “to all wars and recognize the role we play in sustaining our own, virtual serfdom and vulnerability to aggression”? I don’t know on a deep level but I have the antidote. There needs to be a connection between reflexive distrust of government leaders and their intentions and action to resist. There can be no resistance without broad based education and information. That’s only possible now, to the degree it takes place, because of the internet. Unless communities of resistance to the madness arise soon, they’ll be shutting this vehicle of truth down or pricing it out of reach. Maybe that will be the breaking point.

Or something quite different and not a mixture of those?

If Bugliosi thinks Nader caused Gore’s loss – that is irrelevant to this case.

First, that Bugliosi could honestly believe that Nader caused Gore’s loss. I’ve admired Bugliosi’s attention to facts for years and thought he was much, much smarter than that. If he actually believes this, it is a truly, truly sad comment on ol’ Vince.

And, second, that anyone could actually believe that Obama would not pardon Bush. People cannot seriously believe this. I invite all who do to look closely with clear eyes at Obama’s deeds, not his talk, regarding war and citizens’ rights: voting to fund Bush’s war, voting in favor or wire tapping, etc., etc. And, think about it, these are his deeds when he needs your vote.

I think Vince’s idea is great – but he is grossly uninformed if he thinks Nader caused Gore’s loss; and anyone who thinks Obama will not pardon Bush is playing a very sad fool’s game of wishful thinking.

[Nb: I intend to be deliberately provocative, here]. What has power-driven war ever amounted to, if not murder? And, name a war that has not been effectively preemptive, towards the cause of power consolidation.

Exploiting either poor folk, looking feed themselves, or drafting brainwashed sods to take up arms against media-fabricated enemies for the benefit of financial expansion, has *always* been the ‘name of the war game’. Since a very long time.

The difference, today, lies in the hyper-amplified, global powers that are possessed and nurtured by incestuous Western aligned nations, with their increasingly sophisticated tools of oppression [usury and expropriation of public commons] and annihilation [wmd] to oppress those who might one day be in a position to challenge their positions, even going so far as to give voice to ideological zealots such as neocon Michael Ledeen, who proclaimed famously that the US needs, every now and then, to throw “some shitty country” against the wall just to show it who’s boss”.

Government-sanctioned murder, through manipulation, assassination, and war is clearly near-ubiquitous, in the industrialized world, if one takes even a cursory look at the contexts behind wars, most particularly those in recent history that led the world to Wars I and II.

So, yes, again, I’m all for the prosecution of the current batch of criminals for murder and war crimes, but more to the point and more effective, in the long run, would be that we identify the *common denominator* to all wars and recognize the role we play in sustaining our own, virtual serfdom and vulnerability to aggression.

Meanwhile, I recommend taking BushCo, the boards of the Carlyle group, Dyncorp, Lockheed Marin, BAE, etc, and, rather than put them to death, place them on a nice, isolated island, dominated by an externally controlled Central Bank, give them a few hundred dollars to work with, and watch how their society fares.

Imagine, if this case did get pushed through and was won by the prosecution, it would indeed change the future of every president. They would have to worry about their future freedoms and not about the well-being of the state. If nothing less, it would persuade more quality candidates to NOT run for president.

I do not condone Bush’s decisions or crimes but feel that the US should have impeached him years ago to avoid this on going problem. By prosecuting him, the US would be setting itself up for a weaker political future where all decisions would be made based on Will I get into trouble if this does not work out well, as opposed to, We need to do this because…

Now, I do, on the other hand, understand that the case would be different if the future president(s) actually told the truth and did not feed the public well constructed lies, but there would still be an opportunity to federally prosecute any decisions. Large groups could, in theory, produce enough momentum and questioning that a case could be prosecuted that really has no business in the courts…

I’ve read the book and I have some disagreements with some of his conclusions.
He gives Colin Powell a pass.
He blames Nader for Gore’s ignomious ‘loss’.
And, he feels that the Democratic Congress or its Dem members when they weren’t in the majority, were duped.

People are pissed off right now. They want someone to answer for this. It’s only the tepid left, truly an embarrassment, and the Matrix engineers who manufacture the lies 7/24 that allow this nonsense to continue by discrediting any leader who emerges to fight for the people. We’ll see.