Comments on: Rights for Other Apes, They Insist. Are They Serious?

By: Lee Hall

Lee Hall — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 04:00:11 +0000

Thank you for the words of support. We should keep writing, keep doing, and hold advocates (for human and non-human rights) accountable for their arguments. Personhood for other apes in Spain is indeed a hopeful advance – as long as it doesn’t turn out to be personhood lite.

As you suggest, the struggle for human rights and struggle for others animals’ rights are the same struggle to transcend systems of domination. So they should be discussed accordingly. The struggle for animal-rights jurisprudence must be taken more seriously. Imagine the power of environmentalism if it were! And we who are living on Earth need that power now.

I sent the piece to the Swedish abolitionist blogger Per-Anders Svärd, who in turn created this wonderful analogy: in Spain’s case for applying “human rights” to other beings, suddenly these rights are not at all how we remember them, and now they become like dried raisins from the once juicy grapes of rights.

By: Serafina

Serafina — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 02:24:08 +0000

I am so glad Spain has taken this action – even as you say if some of the advocates are making the wrong argument – it reminds me of times when people gendered women were thought to be Biologically lesser beings then men – of a time when it was deemed men could vote but women couldn’t . (My argument is loose but the point is that beings have intrinsic value – so lets focus on our similarities and not only our differences). The fact that Amnesty feels threatened by the Spanish decision as opposed to celebrating a general rise in consciousness that will hopefully benefit their work as well is disappointing.

Why is it so difficult to learn from nature – from Scientific observations – that we are all connected, species, ecology etc. If we keep compartmentalizing and hierarchicalizing as opposed to building on / understanding our natural symbiosis and respect our distinct habitats. . . well then, it looks to me like we might be doomed – but NOT as long as Lee Hall keeps writing and doing we’re not.
Thanks for another great article Lee.

By: laura beth

laura beth — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:42:30 +0000

After reading , Eternal Treblinka, Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocaust, by Dr. Charles Patterson, http://www.powerfulbook.com, the puzzle of why our species learned aggression, force, brutality and violence became clear. First, we practiced it all when humans “domesticated” other beings, then we practiced it on each other.
Following the beginning of herding socieites, as this book does, we can easily understand how it is that our ancestors needed to become desensitized to cruelty, suffering, torture of sentient creatures in order to take their hides, flesh, organs, young. What is now euphamistically known as “animal husbandry,” is really rape, abduction, killing of those who have no defense.
This is more about our learned practices of animal exploitation but certainly opened the door for the millions of torurous practices used on our kin, primates. How in the world can we ever calculate a cost for the agony and unimaginable pain we’ve caused them?

By: catherine

catherine — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:37:52 +0000

What a marvelous piece on animal rights and the relevant issues. Thank you so much.

I’m appalled to learn what the Goodall Institute is doing. Is it possible she has come to believe over the years (and who could blame her?) that our species is just not capable of granting entire freedom to other species, and this is the best she things she can get for primates?

In any case, thanks again for so much to think about, and also for the references to follow through on your points.

By: HR

HR — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:23:37 +0000

There would be no zoos if humans didn’t patronize them. Kind of like, there would be no corporate politicians if people didn’t vote for them.