Comments on: Can a Handful of International Activists and Two Boats Break the Siege of Gaza? http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/can-a-handful-of-international-activists-and-two-boats-break-the-siege-of-gaza/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:08:02 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: bozhidar balkas http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/can-a-handful-of-international-activists-and-two-boats-break-the-siege-of-gaza/#comment-26801 bozhidar balkas Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:16:29 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2549#comment-26801 richard b, what you wrote about hamas may be true in every detail. however, badness of some people in any nation does not remove its right to be free of siege and occupation. often, by the Left and the Right bad deeds- alleged or actual- by individuals are cited in order to punish a people collectively. eg, kosovo had no right to independence because so many leading kosovars were drug dealers/murderers/terrorists, etcetc. often, too often, too many amers/zionists aver how bad arabs and pals are; ergo, how cld such primitives ever govern selves and live in peace with peaceful/noble/gentle zionists. thank u. richard b,
what you wrote about hamas may be true in every detail. however, badness of some people in any nation does not remove its right to be free of siege and occupation.
often, by the Left and the Right bad deeds- alleged or actual- by individuals are cited in order to punish a people collectively.
eg, kosovo had no right to independence because so many leading kosovars were drug dealers/murderers/terrorists, etcetc.
often, too often, too many amers/zionists aver how bad arabs and pals are; ergo, how cld such primitives ever govern selves and live in peace with peaceful/noble/gentle zionists.
thank u.

]]> By: bozhidar balkas http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/can-a-handful-of-international-activists-and-two-boats-break-the-siege-of-gaza/#comment-26758 bozhidar balkas Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:47:24 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2549#comment-26758 joe, my reply to you had not appeared. in torah you'll find following: you shall be lenders; not borrowers. you're chosen. you are the light onto the world you shall have servants but will not serve others utterly destroy canaanites and by extension, destroy also pals joe,
my reply to you had not appeared.
in torah you’ll find following:
you shall be lenders; not borrowers.
you’re chosen.
you are the light onto the world
you shall have servants but will not serve others
utterly destroy canaanites
and by extension, destroy also pals

]]> By: richard bartholomew http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/can-a-handful-of-international-activists-and-two-boats-break-the-siege-of-gaza/#comment-26730 richard bartholomew Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:45:02 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2549#comment-26730 Sharat Lin's article and the comments of your correspondents are blithely unaware of the recent report by the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights condemning the illegal occupation of Gaza by the Hamas gang. This objective report documents the creation of a giant prison camp by the Hamas theocrats for the opponents of their illegal coup. Torture there is commonplace, including the brutal Hamas practice of crushing testicles, and multi-rapings of married women. Some 25,000 poor Palestinians are beaten daily by the Hamas sadists. Foreign activists are fearful of protesting because they know Hamas will kill them. Thus, I am afraid that this planned sailing to Gaza by left-wing deviationists is an infantile - if not entertaining - affair. Sharat Lin’s article and the comments of your correspondents are blithely unaware of the recent report by the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights condemning the illegal occupation of Gaza by the Hamas gang. This objective report documents the creation of a giant prison camp by the Hamas theocrats for the opponents of their illegal coup. Torture there is commonplace, including the brutal Hamas practice of crushing testicles, and multi-rapings of married women. Some 25,000 poor Palestinians are beaten daily by the Hamas sadists. Foreign activists are fearful of protesting because they know Hamas will kill them. Thus, I am afraid that this planned sailing to Gaza by left-wing deviationists is an infantile – if not entertaining – affair.

]]> By: Joe http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/can-a-handful-of-international-activists-and-two-boats-break-the-siege-of-gaza/#comment-26660 Joe Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:48:20 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2549#comment-26660 Broadly speaking, yes, however this will not happen without things getting worse in the interim. If Israel had embraced Arafat and stood by Oslo then the Religious on both sides would have been weakened, however this was not to be, hence the religous partys becoming the antagonistic powers they are (I am referring to the Settler Movement and Hamas). One thing is for sure though, and that is history has a habit of turning around if you give it enough time. Israeli's I'm sure want to be on the right side of it when it does. Simply making your enemies bow before your might will not do alone. Balkas, if you think like I do with regards to Palestine then I would suggest you do away with generalisations about troublemakers, it doesn't really help. There is a reason most of Europe's Jewry was concentrated in eastern Europe when Nazism kicked off, constant grief from other Europeans, a long interminable history of persecution long before the "Protocols" were written. EVERY people has it's troublemakers, but to quote an old english expression, it is foolish to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" we all have good people amongst us. The trick is trying to empower the good. Broadly speaking, yes, however this will not happen without things getting worse in the interim.

If Israel had embraced Arafat and stood by Oslo then the Religious on both sides would have been weakened, however this was not to be, hence the religous partys becoming the antagonistic powers they are (I am referring to the Settler Movement and Hamas).

One thing is for sure though, and that is history has a habit of turning around if you give it enough time. Israeli’s I’m sure want to be on the right side of it when it does. Simply making your enemies bow before your might will not do alone.

Balkas, if you think like I do with regards to Palestine then I would suggest you do away with generalisations about troublemakers, it doesn’t really help. There is a reason most of Europe’s Jewry was concentrated in eastern Europe when Nazism kicked off, constant grief from other Europeans, a long interminable history of persecution long before the “Protocols” were written. EVERY people has it’s troublemakers, but to quote an old english expression, it is foolish to “throw the baby out with the bathwater” we all have good people amongst us.

The trick is trying to empower the good.

]]> By: bozhidar balkas http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/can-a-handful-of-international-activists-and-two-boats-break-the-siege-of-gaza/#comment-26615 bozhidar balkas Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:48:00 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2549#comment-26615 joe, if i have understood you, you are for onestate solution?! so am i. it can be called israel or palestine. my understanding is that many israeli and palestinians are impious in all its degrees, thus they can preclude establishment of theocracies. mizrahim being semites can get along with other semitic peoples. euro-asians with judaic faith are trouble makers. they always have been just about everwhere. it is these people, nonsemitic, who are master of the semites and who hate semites beyond belief. thank u joe,
if i have understood you, you are for onestate solution?! so am i.
it can be called israel or palestine.
my understanding is that many israeli and palestinians are impious in all its degrees,
thus they can preclude establishment of theocracies.
mizrahim being semites can get along with other semitic peoples.
euro-asians with judaic faith are trouble makers. they always have been just about everwhere.
it is these people, nonsemitic, who are master of the semites and who hate semites beyond belief. thank u

]]> By: Joe http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/can-a-handful-of-international-activists-and-two-boats-break-the-siege-of-gaza/#comment-26609 Joe Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:57:23 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2549#comment-26609 "If your intentions are good, please choose this way; if you do not intend to deliver the humanitarian aid via Israel , this proves that your goal is political and constitutes the legitimization of a terrorist organization." Ergo, if you get shelled its because you're in league with terrorists. With regards to the average Israeli, if you want a country worth living in you have all the cards, the current situation is moving further away from the two-state solution and toward the one state one. Olmert himself presciently said the same thing a while back. The "Jordanian option" is not an option, that ship has sailed. Do you really want to share all of historic Palestine and end up with one man, one vote. That would be the end of Israel as a Jewish state without firing a shot. You need the settlers in Israel proper, they're the ones having all the (Jewish) babies.....unless you incorporate the occupied territories into Israel proper and face (one day) a free election of all the people who live there. Zionism is at a crucial juncture. Discuss..... “If your intentions are good, please choose this way; if you do not intend to deliver the humanitarian aid via Israel , this proves that your goal is political and constitutes the legitimization of a terrorist organization.”

Ergo, if you get shelled its because you’re in league with terrorists.

With regards to the average Israeli, if you want a country worth living in you have all the cards, the current situation is moving further away from the two-state solution and toward the one state one. Olmert himself presciently said the same thing a while back. The “Jordanian option” is not an option, that ship has sailed.

Do you really want to share all of historic Palestine and end up with one man, one vote. That would be the end of Israel as a Jewish state without firing a shot.

You need the settlers in Israel proper, they’re the ones having all the (Jewish) babies…..unless you incorporate the occupied territories into Israel proper and face (one day) a free election of all the people who live there.

Zionism is at a crucial juncture. Discuss…..

]]> By: bozhidar balkas http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/can-a-handful-of-international-activists-and-two-boats-break-the-siege-of-gaza/#comment-26586 bozhidar balkas Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:02:44 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2549#comment-26586 hugh, i do not recognize israel only palestine. if you want to reward war criminals with recognition of what they have stolen and grant the thiefs the right to bar retrurn of people who were driven out, please say so. i never will. where these criminals belong if anywhere is not my responsibility. if you reward then you too are a criminal. i can't thank you for putting your word in m y mouth. that is dishonest. hugh,
i do not recognize israel only palestine. if you want to reward war criminals with recognition of what they have stolen and grant the thiefs the right to bar retrurn of people who were driven out, please say so.
i never will.
where these criminals belong if anywhere is not my responsibility.
if you reward then you too are a criminal.
i can’t thank you for putting your word in m y mouth. that is dishonest.

]]> By: Hugh http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/can-a-handful-of-international-activists-and-two-boats-break-the-siege-of-gaza/#comment-26581 Hugh Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:09:40 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2549#comment-26581 bozhidar ...there are 7 million people in Israel. What do you want to do with them? Kill them? Gas them? Drive them into the sea? For peace? bozhidar …there are 7 million people in Israel.

What do you want to do with them? Kill them? Gas them? Drive them into the sea?

For peace?

]]> By: bozhidar balkas http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/can-a-handful-of-international-activists-and-two-boats-break-the-siege-of-gaza/#comment-26577 bozhidar balkas Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:56:57 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2549#comment-26577 according to noam katz, the people bringing aid (medicine and food) to children of gaza are thus supporting a terrorist regime in gaza. oh, it is so easy to call names; and as we know namecalling does not ever elucidate any situation and in the besieged gaza the name "terorist" for gazan govt freely elected cannot apply. what noam wants is peaceful occupation of expalestine. or as in case of gaza, peaceful siege. in fact, gazans are morally and legally obligated to try to break the siege by all means. down with the criminal israel. thank u according to noam katz, the people bringing aid (medicine and food) to children of gaza are thus supporting a terrorist regime in gaza.
oh, it is so easy to call names; and as we know namecalling does not ever elucidate any situation and in the besieged gaza the name “terorist” for gazan govt freely elected cannot apply.
what noam wants is peaceful occupation of expalestine. or as in case of gaza, peaceful siege.
in fact, gazans are morally and legally obligated to try to break the siege by all means.
down with the criminal israel. thank u

]]> By: Hugh http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/can-a-handful-of-international-activists-and-two-boats-break-the-siege-of-gaza/#comment-26566 Hugh Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:55:10 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2549#comment-26566 Here's a letter sent by the gov't of Israel to the FreeGaza gang. 18 August 2008 The Steering Committee for the Free Gaza Movement, Cyprus Dear Committee Members: Your letter to Vice Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Livni as published on your website has been brought to our attention. We assume that your intentions are good but, in fact, the result of your action is that you are supporting the regime of a terrorist organization in Gaza, an organization dedicated to non-recognition of the State of Israel and its right to exist; an organization that sends women and children to commit suicide in order to hurt others; an organization that has committed dozens of terrorist acts against Israeli civilians, including massive attacks of rockets and mortar bombs on Israeli communities in the heart of Israel's sovereign territory. It is this organization that does not allow the Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace. In 2005, Israel withdrew all of its forces and all of its citizens from the Gaza Strip so that the Palestinians could manage their own lives; in return, innocent Israeli citizens were the targets of repeated attacks launched from within Palestinian civilian population centers, turning the Palestinian population into hostages of the terrorist organizations and the Hamas regime. The attacks from the Gaza Strip against Israeli communities continue to this day. In June 2007, Hamas led a violent coup in Gaza and seized the government illegally, a fact which led to an international boycott and isolation of its government. The international community also set clear conditions that Hamas must fulfill in order to be regarded as a partner for diplomatic contacts and normal economic relations. Hamas is the central player in the Gaza Strip and the address to which you should direct your complaints concerning the situation there. In this protest voyage to Gaza , you seek to remove legitimate pressure on the Hamas government and to violate the conditions of the international community; therefore we cannot cooperate with your efforts. Your claim that the residents of the Gaza Strip are suffering from hunger is groundless considering the amount of food that passes every day from Israel to the Gaza Strip. There isn't another conflict in the world in which one side supplies all the needs of the other side – food, medicines, water, fuel and electricity. Thousands of Palestinians have crossed into Israel from the Gaza Strip to receive medical treatment at Israeli hospitals. We would like to point out that the area to which you are planning to sail is the subject of an advisory notice that has been published by the Israeli Navy, which warns all foreign vessels to remain clear of the designated maritime zone off the coast of Gaza in light of the current security situation. We have received information that you are planning to bring humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip. We would like to bring to your attention that the transfer of humanitarian aid to Israel is effected, at present, through agreed-upon channels, and the Israeli authorities will ensure that the shipment reaches its destination via the land crossing points. We will be happy to assist you in this endeavor. If your intentions are good, please choose this way; if you do not intend to deliver the humanitarian aid via Israel , this proves that your goal is political and constitutes the legitimization of a terrorist organization. Sincerely, Noam Katz Director, Public Relations Department Ministry of Foreign Affairs ----- Here’s a letter sent by the gov’t of Israel to the FreeGaza gang.

18 August 2008
The Steering Committee for the Free Gaza Movement, Cyprus

Dear Committee Members:

Your letter to Vice Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Tzipi Livni as published on your website has been brought to our attention. We assume that your intentions are good but, in fact, the result of your action is that you are supporting the regime of a terrorist organization in Gaza, an organization dedicated to non-recognition of the State of Israel and its right to exist; an organization that sends women and children to commit suicide in order to hurt others; an organization that has committed dozens of terrorist acts against Israeli civilians, including massive attacks of rockets and mortar bombs on Israeli communities in the heart of Israel’s sovereign territory. It is this organization that does not allow the Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace. In 2005, Israel withdrew all of its forces and all of its citizens from the Gaza Strip so that the Palestinians could manage their own lives; in return, innocent Israeli citizens were the targets of repeated attacks launched from within Palestinian civilian population centers, turning the Palestinian population into hostages of the terrorist organizations and the Hamas regime. The attacks from the Gaza Strip against Israeli communities continue to this day.

In June 2007, Hamas led a violent coup in Gaza and seized the government illegally, a fact which led to an international boycott and isolation of its government. The international community also set clear conditions that Hamas must fulfill in order to be regarded as a partner for diplomatic contacts and normal economic relations. Hamas is the central player in the Gaza Strip and the address to which you should direct your complaints concerning the situation there. In this protest voyage to Gaza , you seek to remove legitimate pressure on the Hamas government and to violate the conditions of the international community; therefore we cannot cooperate with your efforts.

Your claim that the residents of the Gaza Strip are suffering from hunger is groundless considering the amount of food that passes every day from Israel to the Gaza Strip. There isn’t another conflict in the world in which one side supplies all the needs of the other side – food, medicines, water, fuel and electricity. Thousands of Palestinians have crossed into Israel from the Gaza Strip to receive medical treatment at Israeli hospitals.

We would like to point out that the area to which you are planning to sail is the subject of an advisory notice that has been published by the Israeli Navy, which warns all foreign vessels to remain clear of the designated maritime zone off the coast of Gaza in light of the current security situation.

We have received information that you are planning to bring humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip. We would like to bring to your attention that the transfer of humanitarian aid to Israel is effected, at present, through agreed-upon channels, and the Israeli authorities will ensure that the shipment reaches its destination via the land crossing points. We will be happy to assist you in this endeavor.

If your intentions are good, please choose this way; if you do not intend to deliver the humanitarian aid via Israel , this proves that your goal is political and constitutes the legitimization of a terrorist organization.

Sincerely,
Noam Katz
Director, Public Relations Department
Ministry of Foreign Affairs
—–

]]> By: bozhidar balkas http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/can-a-handful-of-international-activists-and-two-boats-break-the-siege-of-gaza/#comment-26565 bozhidar balkas Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:46:57 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2549#comment-26565 i am awed at the significance of ss liberty and ss free gaza mission to break the siege of gaza. it's no wonder that mossad is threatening the people on the two ships. i do not recognize the state of israel; i recognize only the state of palestine. than k u i am awed at the significance of ss liberty and ss free gaza mission to break the siege of gaza.
it’s no wonder that mossad is threatening the people on the two ships.
i do not recognize the state of israel; i recognize only the state of palestine. than k u

]]>