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	<title>Comments on: A Dirty Adventure &#8212; Part 2</title>
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	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/a-dirty-adventure-part-2/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: bozhidar balkas</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/a-dirty-adventure-part-2/#comment-26204</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar balkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2498#comment-26204</guid>
		<description>correction.
&quot;projected divide wld have been much deeper and perilous. thank you&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>correction.<br />
&#8220;projected divide wld have been much deeper and perilous. thank you&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: bozhidar balkas</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/a-dirty-adventure-part-2/#comment-26203</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar balkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2498#comment-26203</guid>
		<description>donald, more on  deep divide.
the new divide, if it happens, wld include nonchristians, russians who are orthodox, and muslims on one side and mostly christians on the other side.
which way will japanese people go i do not know.
projected divide wld never have been deeper nor more perilous.
i needed to explain things. thank u</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>donald, more on  deep divide.<br />
the new divide, if it happens, wld include nonchristians, russians who are orthodox, and muslims on one side and mostly christians on the other side.<br />
which way will japanese people go i do not know.<br />
projected divide wld never have been deeper nor more perilous.<br />
i needed to explain things. thank u</p>
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		<title>By: Pipe</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/a-dirty-adventure-part-2/#comment-26189</link>
		<dc:creator>Pipe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 04:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2498#comment-26189</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the analysis.

I thought it was a bit fishy that the mainstream news have been going to great lengths to highlight the fact that Russia has a larger military force vs little Georgia&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the analysis.</p>
<p>I thought it was a bit fishy that the mainstream news have been going to great lengths to highlight the fact that Russia has a larger military force vs little Georgia&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/a-dirty-adventure-part-2/#comment-26178</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 01:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2498#comment-26178</guid>
		<description>It looks that we have a deep divide along religious lines.  That is so twentieth century.  Bozhidar I just couldn&#039;t help myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks that we have a deep divide along religious lines.  That is so twentieth century.  Bozhidar I just couldn&#8217;t help myself.</p>
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		<title>By: bozhidar balkas</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/a-dirty-adventure-part-2/#comment-26173</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar balkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 23:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2498#comment-26173</guid>
		<description>i conjecture that US is merely testing the water. russia has vowed to use wmd if attacked.
in addition, any more pressure on russia along with china may push the two evil empires to form an alliance.
most muslim countries may also join them. muslims dislike most EU countries and also US and israel.
palestine had been an easy prey along with afgh&#039;n and iraq.
it looks that we have a deep divide along religious lines.
even afgh&#039;n may be difficult to hold forever.
iraq can be held in subjugation by dividing the land into  four parts: kurdish, sunni, shia, and an US statelet. thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i conjecture that US is merely testing the water. russia has vowed to use wmd if attacked.<br />
in addition, any more pressure on russia along with china may push the two evil empires to form an alliance.<br />
most muslim countries may also join them. muslims dislike most EU countries and also US and israel.<br />
palestine had been an easy prey along with afgh&#8217;n and iraq.<br />
it looks that we have a deep divide along religious lines.<br />
even afgh&#8217;n may be difficult to hold forever.<br />
iraq can be held in subjugation by dividing the land into  four parts: kurdish, sunni, shia, and an US statelet. thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/a-dirty-adventure-part-2/#comment-26171</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 23:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2498#comment-26171</guid>
		<description>Elena what you just wrote means you are not afraid and that voice in the back of your head is working just fine. You keep reading and writting. 



The rules for society are made by people who have pretty much one thing in mind, staying in power and making big money. Then of course you have people who work for these people who I guess like being part of that thinking and feel special that way. Let’s say you were a fly on the wall at a party for policy makers, big shots. To listen to these people talk at the party and say the fly on the wall has half a brain the fly would understand how far these people are away from reality the real World and the arrogance astounding. I don’t think these people think that they are intellects but that the rest of us are just stupid and easily persuaded by bullshit. Now the same thing is true with the stuff you see on TV weather it is news or commercials. The commercials that I see for the most part seem to like to keep you stupid or say it is Ok to be stupid and buy my product it’s Ok. Degrading for the most part and again I don’t think these people think that they are intellects but that the rest of us are just stupid and easily persuaded by bullshit. Let’s look at Hollywood well what happens to a person who was once famous and lost that famous part for whatever reason. They do commercials like maybe for a reverse mortgage or cash for gold. Corporate big shots and the people who make the laws are almost one now. What do you call that Fascism? I don’t think we are there yet but darn close. Now was this a master plan by people with secret hand shakes, no. Money makes money and over the years less and less people have more of that money and give that money to the people who make the rules and look how well it as all worked out. Let’s pick a number of these groups I just talked about say 5% of the population so that leaves 95%. Now the 95% of us how come we are who we are. Of course this is not true in all cases but I think most people have no desire to be like the other 5% because that voice in the back of our head say’s you know something is not quite right with this thinking and I’ll be who I am if you don’t mind and of course the 5% do want you to be like them well almost they want you to buy there bullshit. Just the one group the policy makers I have watched for the last few day’s the Senate. To watch these people talk and there reasons for this or that again I must say I don’t think these people think that they are intellects but that the rest of us are just stupid and easily persuaded by bullshit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elena what you just wrote means you are not afraid and that voice in the back of your head is working just fine. You keep reading and writting. </p>
<p>The rules for society are made by people who have pretty much one thing in mind, staying in power and making big money. Then of course you have people who work for these people who I guess like being part of that thinking and feel special that way. Let’s say you were a fly on the wall at a party for policy makers, big shots. To listen to these people talk at the party and say the fly on the wall has half a brain the fly would understand how far these people are away from reality the real World and the arrogance astounding. I don’t think these people think that they are intellects but that the rest of us are just stupid and easily persuaded by bullshit. Now the same thing is true with the stuff you see on TV weather it is news or commercials. The commercials that I see for the most part seem to like to keep you stupid or say it is Ok to be stupid and buy my product it’s Ok. Degrading for the most part and again I don’t think these people think that they are intellects but that the rest of us are just stupid and easily persuaded by bullshit. Let’s look at Hollywood well what happens to a person who was once famous and lost that famous part for whatever reason. They do commercials like maybe for a reverse mortgage or cash for gold. Corporate big shots and the people who make the laws are almost one now. What do you call that Fascism? I don’t think we are there yet but darn close. Now was this a master plan by people with secret hand shakes, no. Money makes money and over the years less and less people have more of that money and give that money to the people who make the rules and look how well it as all worked out. Let’s pick a number of these groups I just talked about say 5% of the population so that leaves 95%. Now the 95% of us how come we are who we are. Of course this is not true in all cases but I think most people have no desire to be like the other 5% because that voice in the back of our head say’s you know something is not quite right with this thinking and I’ll be who I am if you don’t mind and of course the 5% do want you to be like them well almost they want you to buy there bullshit. Just the one group the policy makers I have watched for the last few day’s the Senate. To watch these people talk and there reasons for this or that again I must say I don’t think these people think that they are intellects but that the rest of us are just stupid and easily persuaded by bullshit.</p>
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		<title>By: brian</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/a-dirty-adventure-part-2/#comment-26163</link>
		<dc:creator>brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2498#comment-26163</guid>
		<description>note the irony: US and Israel HAVE BEEN doing in Georgia, what they claim Iran has been doing in Iraq! Arming insurgents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>note the irony: US and Israel HAVE BEEN doing in Georgia, what they claim Iran has been doing in Iraq! Arming insurgents.</p>
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		<title>By: Elena</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/a-dirty-adventure-part-2/#comment-26159</link>
		<dc:creator>Elena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 20:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2498#comment-26159</guid>
		<description>&quot;&quot;Such arrogance is likely to be ruinous for all involved. A dirty adventure, indeed.&quot;&quot; AMEN!!!

I enjoyed the article a lot, it sheds some light over the latest events. I grew up in Communist Romania, where getting real information was dangerous (we were listening to forbidden radio stations, my Dad was a fine intellectual and did not agree with the government), but I am noticing that the lack of information in USA is just as bad (bad to my moral, it is discouraging to see how the vast majority of the American people are so naive about what is really going on and it&#039;s partially the truncated news we get here on TV). And I  have AGAIN the fear of talking about the truth (the fear that the Communists instilled in me), I would rather just keep mute...that&#039;s what eight years of despotism (despotism G. Bush style) did to me again...reduced me to a little fearful child...I wish I would know something different that would make me stronger and have more hope for the future.
Thank you!
I&#039;ll be reading here a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8221;Such arrogance is likely to be ruinous for all involved. A dirty adventure, indeed.&#8221;" AMEN!!!</p>
<p>I enjoyed the article a lot, it sheds some light over the latest events. I grew up in Communist Romania, where getting real information was dangerous (we were listening to forbidden radio stations, my Dad was a fine intellectual and did not agree with the government), but I am noticing that the lack of information in USA is just as bad (bad to my moral, it is discouraging to see how the vast majority of the American people are so naive about what is really going on and it&#8217;s partially the truncated news we get here on TV). And I  have AGAIN the fear of talking about the truth (the fear that the Communists instilled in me), I would rather just keep mute&#8230;that&#8217;s what eight years of despotism (despotism G. Bush style) did to me again&#8230;reduced me to a little fearful child&#8230;I wish I would know something different that would make me stronger and have more hope for the future.<br />
Thank you!<br />
I&#8217;ll be reading here a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: Mizgin</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/a-dirty-adventure-part-2/#comment-26155</link>
		<dc:creator>Mizgin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2498#comment-26155</guid>
		<description>Turkey is already transporting Iranian natural gas to Europe, and has been for some time.  As far back as 2006, PKK has targeted Turkey-Iran gas pipelines that run through Turkish-occupied Kurdistan.  Last week Tuesday, PKK blew up a portion of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://rastibini.blogspot.com/2008/08/hpg-btc-pipeline-targeted.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BTC pipeline&lt;/a&gt; in Ağrı province, not far from Doğubeyazıt. also in Turkish-occupied Kurdistan.  The pipeline to Ceyhan is shut down for at least two weeks and may be shut down for longer.

This caused Azerbaijan to redirect the petroleum flow through alternate routes in Georgia.  Two days later, US proxy, Georgia, attacked South Ossetia.  Perhaps Russia will be able to shut down the BTC pipeline further along the route.

It should also be noted that, just as Georgia is a NATO-wannabe, so Iran is an SCO-wannabe.  On 25 July, SCO held a meeting in Tajikistan, the agenda for which included a discussion on lifting the moratorium on admitting new member states.  RIA-Novosti, which initially reported this news, published a denial of such a discussion at the end of July, while other pro-Western sources claim that SCO will develop a protocol for expansion.  At any rate, Iran has observer status with SCO and there is mutual cooperation between it and other SCO members.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Turkey is already transporting Iranian natural gas to Europe, and has been for some time.  As far back as 2006, PKK has targeted Turkey-Iran gas pipelines that run through Turkish-occupied Kurdistan.  Last week Tuesday, PKK blew up a portion of the <a href="http://rastibini.blogspot.com/2008/08/hpg-btc-pipeline-targeted.html" rel="nofollow">BTC pipeline</a> in Ağrı province, not far from Doğubeyazıt. also in Turkish-occupied Kurdistan.  The pipeline to Ceyhan is shut down for at least two weeks and may be shut down for longer.</p>
<p>This caused Azerbaijan to redirect the petroleum flow through alternate routes in Georgia.  Two days later, US proxy, Georgia, attacked South Ossetia.  Perhaps Russia will be able to shut down the BTC pipeline further along the route.</p>
<p>It should also be noted that, just as Georgia is a NATO-wannabe, so Iran is an SCO-wannabe.  On 25 July, SCO held a meeting in Tajikistan, the agenda for which included a discussion on lifting the moratorium on admitting new member states.  RIA-Novosti, which initially reported this news, published a denial of such a discussion at the end of July, while other pro-Western sources claim that SCO will develop a protocol for expansion.  At any rate, Iran has observer status with SCO and there is mutual cooperation between it and other SCO members.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/a-dirty-adventure-part-2/#comment-26142</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2498#comment-26142</guid>
		<description>The US should do what it may still be able to do but has been unwilling to do: go full bore on multilateral disarmament. Shore up the UN and International law. I know the US gov&#039;t has been the worst violater, but there is no replaying history...it&#039;s where we go from here.

The US continues to create its own worse nightmare - following the Chicago School of economics, neoliberal free trade and neoconservative notion of rule the world while we still control it through military force. This is the bed the US govenment has made for itself; and as it slips into a second rate power it will die by the very sword it chose to wield.

Begin an aggressive global detente, begin to transform the empire into a reconnected world partner and STOP creating the gawd awful monsters like the Chinese economy that will replace US consumer hubris with Asian hubris.

And stay out of border disputes, no matter your self-righteous indignation level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The US should do what it may still be able to do but has been unwilling to do: go full bore on multilateral disarmament. Shore up the UN and International law. I know the US gov&#8217;t has been the worst violater, but there is no replaying history&#8230;it&#8217;s where we go from here.</p>
<p>The US continues to create its own worse nightmare &#8211; following the Chicago School of economics, neoliberal free trade and neoconservative notion of rule the world while we still control it through military force. This is the bed the US govenment has made for itself; and as it slips into a second rate power it will die by the very sword it chose to wield.</p>
<p>Begin an aggressive global detente, begin to transform the empire into a reconnected world partner and STOP creating the gawd awful monsters like the Chinese economy that will replace US consumer hubris with Asian hubris.</p>
<p>And stay out of border disputes, no matter your self-righteous indignation level.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kenny</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/a-dirty-adventure-part-2/#comment-26136</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 14:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2498#comment-26136</guid>
		<description>I would think that this thing is a lot simpler than anyone is the conspiracy-crazed US thinks. For some reason, possibly domestic politics, possibly egging on from the US or, more likely, Israel, which seems to be in total panic, the Georgians decided to change the status quo that has existed since the overthrow of the dictatorship. (Yes, Georgia has never actually governed South Ossetia!) However, they miscalculated badly both as to the Russian reaction and the world’s reaction to that reaction. You can bet that the Russians made very sure that no one would support Georgia before they struck!

I think Mr Estes’ last paragraph is a fairly accurate assessment. The US doesn’t know what foot to dance on and that, of course, is its undoing. Look at the options. It starts WWIII to force a minuscule territory of 70 000 people to remain within Georgia against its will. The world will not support that. Even worse, the EU and NATO will not support that! Or it does nothing other than bleat platitudes, which, I would guess, is what it will do. It discredits itself and it discredits NATO. “Hey Mike, where were your American pals when you needed them?” Moreover, with an ongoing conflict with Russia, there is no chance whatsoever of Georgia being let into NATO. Georgian public opinion has now seen that being friends with the US /Israel and enemies with Russia damages their national interest. 

The interesting question therefore is how long Saakashvili can now last. He is already in difficulty and in the knife-in-the-back world of Georgian politics, he will probably be forced to resign.  He has already recalled Georgia’s 2000(!) troops from Iraq to help defend the homeland.  As for the EU, I doubt if any tears are being shed. Europe does not like leaders that are too close to the US and, worse yet, to Israel and it’s noticeable that nobody in the EU is lifting a finger to help Saakashvili. 

So whichever way the US jumps, it loses!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would think that this thing is a lot simpler than anyone is the conspiracy-crazed US thinks. For some reason, possibly domestic politics, possibly egging on from the US or, more likely, Israel, which seems to be in total panic, the Georgians decided to change the status quo that has existed since the overthrow of the dictatorship. (Yes, Georgia has never actually governed South Ossetia!) However, they miscalculated badly both as to the Russian reaction and the world’s reaction to that reaction. You can bet that the Russians made very sure that no one would support Georgia before they struck!</p>
<p>I think Mr Estes’ last paragraph is a fairly accurate assessment. The US doesn’t know what foot to dance on and that, of course, is its undoing. Look at the options. It starts WWIII to force a minuscule territory of 70 000 people to remain within Georgia against its will. The world will not support that. Even worse, the EU and NATO will not support that! Or it does nothing other than bleat platitudes, which, I would guess, is what it will do. It discredits itself and it discredits NATO. “Hey Mike, where were your American pals when you needed them?” Moreover, with an ongoing conflict with Russia, there is no chance whatsoever of Georgia being let into NATO. Georgian public opinion has now seen that being friends with the US /Israel and enemies with Russia damages their national interest. </p>
<p>The interesting question therefore is how long Saakashvili can now last. He is already in difficulty and in the knife-in-the-back world of Georgian politics, he will probably be forced to resign.  He has already recalled Georgia’s 2000(!) troops from Iraq to help defend the homeland.  As for the EU, I doubt if any tears are being shed. Europe does not like leaders that are too close to the US and, worse yet, to Israel and it’s noticeable that nobody in the EU is lifting a finger to help Saakashvili. </p>
<p>So whichever way the US jumps, it loses!</p>
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