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	<title>Comments on: Squabbling Over the Pigeon Bill</title>
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	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/squabbling-over-the-pigeon-bill/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: HR</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/squabbling-over-the-pigeon-bill/#comment-24977</link>
		<dc:creator>HR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2357#comment-24977</guid>
		<description>Burglary is a crime, period, no matter who commits it.  And, you&#039;re damned right that I celebrate punishment of that crime.  I suppose that bank robbers have the courage of their convictions as well, in your yuppie estimation.  Incidentally, eating meat (and sharing the scraps with my 9-year-old, healthy and active Labarador Retriever, who loves meat, too) and taking medicine are not yuppie conveniences.  The tone of comments here in support of animal &quot;rights&quot; and criminal acts in support of them are part of the reason why otherwise progressive working people have turned their backs on what they see as pseudoprogressive causes, part of why they hate yuppie scum, an emotion I share with them.  And, by the way, I cannot afford fur, nor do I desire it, but certainly do wear leather belts and shoes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burglary is a crime, period, no matter who commits it.  And, you&#8217;re damned right that I celebrate punishment of that crime.  I suppose that bank robbers have the courage of their convictions as well, in your yuppie estimation.  Incidentally, eating meat (and sharing the scraps with my 9-year-old, healthy and active Labarador Retriever, who loves meat, too) and taking medicine are not yuppie conveniences.  The tone of comments here in support of animal &#8220;rights&#8221; and criminal acts in support of them are part of the reason why otherwise progressive working people have turned their backs on what they see as pseudoprogressive causes, part of why they hate yuppie scum, an emotion I share with them.  And, by the way, I cannot afford fur, nor do I desire it, but certainly do wear leather belts and shoes.</p>
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		<title>By: Timber</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/squabbling-over-the-pigeon-bill/#comment-24973</link>
		<dc:creator>Timber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2357#comment-24973</guid>
		<description>HR, I can only wish the same for douchebags that think the world revolves around them and their own yuppie conveniences.   You started by accusing animal rights activists of not caring enough about issues like Iraq, then you celebrate the same neofascist police state throwing people in prison for trying to end the misery of animals.  Why not claim the right to wear fur for yourself too?  Your depiction of animal rights activists is straight out of the right-wing script.  

Groups like the ALF and ELF have the courage of their convictions.  More than I can say about a &quot;radical&quot; like yourself (or myself, for that matter.)  

It&#039;s one thing to not care enough to act yourself; it&#039;s another to celebrate the imprisonment and persecution of people who do care enough to act.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HR, I can only wish the same for douchebags that think the world revolves around them and their own yuppie conveniences.   You started by accusing animal rights activists of not caring enough about issues like Iraq, then you celebrate the same neofascist police state throwing people in prison for trying to end the misery of animals.  Why not claim the right to wear fur for yourself too?  Your depiction of animal rights activists is straight out of the right-wing script.  </p>
<p>Groups like the ALF and ELF have the courage of their convictions.  More than I can say about a &#8220;radical&#8221; like yourself (or myself, for that matter.)  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s one thing to not care enough to act yourself; it&#8217;s another to celebrate the imprisonment and persecution of people who do care enough to act.</p>
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		<title>By: hp</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/squabbling-over-the-pigeon-bill/#comment-24970</link>
		<dc:creator>hp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2357#comment-24970</guid>
		<description>Lloyd, what a sad and wonderful story from your childhood.
I think many of us have similar stories. I know I do.
Call me what you want, but I&#039;ve never forgotten that same bird looking into my eyes all those years ago after I&#039;d shot her with my bb gun. 
To this day I remember too well the sound of those little chicks peeping for their mother who I had just shot and who was staring at me like the monster I surely was.
I&#039;ve never intentionally killed anything since that day, all those years ago..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lloyd, what a sad and wonderful story from your childhood.<br />
I think many of us have similar stories. I know I do.<br />
Call me what you want, but I&#8217;ve never forgotten that same bird looking into my eyes all those years ago after I&#8217;d shot her with my bb gun.<br />
To this day I remember too well the sound of those little chicks peeping for their mother who I had just shot and who was staring at me like the monster I surely was.<br />
I&#8217;ve never intentionally killed anything since that day, all those years ago..</p>
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		<title>By: HR</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/squabbling-over-the-pigeon-bill/#comment-24969</link>
		<dc:creator>HR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2357#comment-24969</guid>
		<description>Better to round up the pseudoliberals and use them for target practice.  I prefer eating meat and having medicine and getting rid of destructive non-native species like pigeons and house sparrows.  And, I love it when these animal rights nut cases get locked up for long terms when they burglarize laboratories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Better to round up the pseudoliberals and use them for target practice.  I prefer eating meat and having medicine and getting rid of destructive non-native species like pigeons and house sparrows.  And, I love it when these animal rights nut cases get locked up for long terms when they burglarize laboratories.</p>
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		<title>By: Timber</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/squabbling-over-the-pigeon-bill/#comment-24941</link>
		<dc:creator>Timber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2357#comment-24941</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a symptom of just how sick, self-absorbed, shallow and petty our culture is when radicals and liberals would rather see animals abused and killed than have to &quot;suffer&quot; some inconvenience.  

The reports of the behavior of the participants and happy observers is proof that the sickness goes way deeper than some particular administration or issue.  It&#039;s endemic and systemic sociopathy.

But there are worse abuses than this; rich scumbags all over the world pay big money to kill lions, tigers and other amazing animals in &quot;canned hunts.&quot;  They&#039;re beneath contempt.

And HR, most animal rights activists are as pissed off as you are about the crimes of the Bush Administration, the military and the government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a symptom of just how sick, self-absorbed, shallow and petty our culture is when radicals and liberals would rather see animals abused and killed than have to &#8220;suffer&#8221; some inconvenience.  </p>
<p>The reports of the behavior of the participants and happy observers is proof that the sickness goes way deeper than some particular administration or issue.  It&#8217;s endemic and systemic sociopathy.</p>
<p>But there are worse abuses than this; rich scumbags all over the world pay big money to kill lions, tigers and other amazing animals in &#8220;canned hunts.&#8221;  They&#8217;re beneath contempt.</p>
<p>And HR, most animal rights activists are as pissed off as you are about the crimes of the Bush Administration, the military and the government.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul D in PA</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/squabbling-over-the-pigeon-bill/#comment-24923</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul D in PA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 14:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2357#comment-24923</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t believe these PA hillbillies are still doing this crap. Most of them must be so old they are shooting from wheel chairs. I say round up the rednecks and use them for target practice. Nobody would miss them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t believe these PA hillbillies are still doing this crap. Most of them must be so old they are shooting from wheel chairs. I say round up the rednecks and use them for target practice. Nobody would miss them.</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd Rowsey</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/squabbling-over-the-pigeon-bill/#comment-24916</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd Rowsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2357#comment-24916</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this, Walter Brasch.  I had a bird-shooting experience in central Texas in approximately 1949, when I was 7 or 8 years old.  I’ve been writing and re-writing the piece for a couple of years.  It’s the first part of a three-part series of vignettes I’ve titled “Damaged Animals”: 


Damaged Animals

1. 

The first time I remember that I saw my father cry was when we were living on a small ranch in the south-central Texas hill country, when I was seven or eight. There was a pond about half a mile from the ranch house where my father and his friends shot doves late summer and early autumn evenings. Beside the pond was a raised platform with a roof, and the shooters would stand on the platform in partial concealment, drinking beer, talking, and waiting for the birds to come winging in to water for the night. When someone knocked a bird down into the pond, the dogs raced to retrieve it; and the man whose dog swam back first with a downed bird won a bet, as of course did the man who downed the bird. Across the pond from the platform, there was a telephone pole standing in long grass and weeds. 

I’d been begging my father for what seemed like an eternity to let me come to the pond when the men were shooting. He always said no, it would be too dangerous. Then one day he gave me an old 410 shotgun of his, took me out, showed me how to load and unload, aim, and shoot. And he must have told me that the men would hold off shooting until I’d got a bird and gone back to the ranch house. 

Which was how I came to be sitting by a pond, in the early evening of a hot September day, in long grass by a telephone pole waiting for a dove to land on a wire. But I had buck fever and missed the first two birds, just sitting there no more than thirty feet from me. To the great amusement and guffaws of the men across the pond. I had better luck with the third dove and knocked it off the wire. It fluttered down into the grass where I found it immediately, not dead but alive and looking me directly in the eye. Its head and neck were beautiful and incredibly graceful, its coloring an astonishing grey. I called out, “Dad, he isn’t dead.” He said, “That’s all right, son. Pick him up and pull his head off.” 

At first I simply did not believe my dad had said that. But I realized he did say it when he repeated with implacable and irrefutable adult logic: “The bird is suffering, son, pick it up and pull its head off.” So I picked the bird up. And I said, “I can’t, Dad.” I could tell dad’s anger was rising, and this put me on the edge of tears. He said, “Pull the goddam bird’s head off, G.L., or you’re going back to the house.” In tears now, I repeated that I couldn’t. “Pull the bird’s head off, and put it out of its misery, or you’re going back to the house and you’re not coming back to shoot with the men.” By this time my face was crimson with tears and shame and the only thing I could hear or see was a noise inside my head. I stood underneath the wires with the dove in my hand, bawling. Then I was running back to the ranch house. 

I’m sure my mother and sister must have consoled me when I got back to the house, but I don’t remember. The first thing I do remember was dad coming into my bedroom hours later, and he was crying. He told me he was sorry for getting angry with me. How he could understand why I didn&#039;t want to pull the bird’s head off. And that when I got used to pulling the heads off sparrows that I knocked out of trees with my BB gun, I could come back to the pond and shoot with the men.

- GL Rowsey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this, Walter Brasch.  I had a bird-shooting experience in central Texas in approximately 1949, when I was 7 or 8 years old.  I’ve been writing and re-writing the piece for a couple of years.  It’s the first part of a three-part series of vignettes I’ve titled “Damaged Animals”: </p>
<p>Damaged Animals</p>
<p>1. </p>
<p>The first time I remember that I saw my father cry was when we were living on a small ranch in the south-central Texas hill country, when I was seven or eight. There was a pond about half a mile from the ranch house where my father and his friends shot doves late summer and early autumn evenings. Beside the pond was a raised platform with a roof, and the shooters would stand on the platform in partial concealment, drinking beer, talking, and waiting for the birds to come winging in to water for the night. When someone knocked a bird down into the pond, the dogs raced to retrieve it; and the man whose dog swam back first with a downed bird won a bet, as of course did the man who downed the bird. Across the pond from the platform, there was a telephone pole standing in long grass and weeds. </p>
<p>I’d been begging my father for what seemed like an eternity to let me come to the pond when the men were shooting. He always said no, it would be too dangerous. Then one day he gave me an old 410 shotgun of his, took me out, showed me how to load and unload, aim, and shoot. And he must have told me that the men would hold off shooting until I’d got a bird and gone back to the ranch house. </p>
<p>Which was how I came to be sitting by a pond, in the early evening of a hot September day, in long grass by a telephone pole waiting for a dove to land on a wire. But I had buck fever and missed the first two birds, just sitting there no more than thirty feet from me. To the great amusement and guffaws of the men across the pond. I had better luck with the third dove and knocked it off the wire. It fluttered down into the grass where I found it immediately, not dead but alive and looking me directly in the eye. Its head and neck were beautiful and incredibly graceful, its coloring an astonishing grey. I called out, “Dad, he isn’t dead.” He said, “That’s all right, son. Pick him up and pull his head off.” </p>
<p>At first I simply did not believe my dad had said that. But I realized he did say it when he repeated with implacable and irrefutable adult logic: “The bird is suffering, son, pick it up and pull its head off.” So I picked the bird up. And I said, “I can’t, Dad.” I could tell dad’s anger was rising, and this put me on the edge of tears. He said, “Pull the goddam bird’s head off, G.L., or you’re going back to the house.” In tears now, I repeated that I couldn’t. “Pull the bird’s head off, and put it out of its misery, or you’re going back to the house and you’re not coming back to shoot with the men.” By this time my face was crimson with tears and shame and the only thing I could hear or see was a noise inside my head. I stood underneath the wires with the dove in my hand, bawling. Then I was running back to the ranch house. </p>
<p>I’m sure my mother and sister must have consoled me when I got back to the house, but I don’t remember. The first thing I do remember was dad coming into my bedroom hours later, and he was crying. He told me he was sorry for getting angry with me. How he could understand why I didn&#8217;t want to pull the bird’s head off. And that when I got used to pulling the heads off sparrows that I knocked out of trees with my BB gun, I could come back to the pond and shoot with the men.</p>
<p>- GL Rowsey</p>
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		<title>By: Winghunter</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/squabbling-over-the-pigeon-bill/#comment-24909</link>
		<dc:creator>Winghunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 07:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2357#comment-24909</guid>
		<description>First, why didn&#039;t the author explain how these pigeon shoots began and why??

What diseases do pigeons carry and what&#039;s the alternative and cost of that alternative to exterminating them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, why didn&#8217;t the author explain how these pigeon shoots began and why??</p>
<p>What diseases do pigeons carry and what&#8217;s the alternative and cost of that alternative to exterminating them?</p>
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		<title>By: HR</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/squabbling-over-the-pigeon-bill/#comment-24896</link>
		<dc:creator>HR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2357#comment-24896</guid>
		<description>So, you ought to watch a slaughterhouse in action, or watch biological researcher, or watch drug and cosmetics tests or grow up on a farm, or, better, just grow up.  These animals are NOT native, they are bred in captivity for specific purposes.

As far as the &quot;pigeons&quot;, actually rock doves, go, if ALL of them in North America disappeared overnight, it would be fine with me.  Incidentally, pheasant aren&#039;t native either, nor are Hungarian partridges, or chukar partridges.

I just get livid over these animal rights nut cases.  Wonder how many of them have called the scum who supposedly represent them in &quot;congress&quot; traitors for destroying the Constitution and  accomplices in war crimes for continuing to fund the war.  Do these foks give a damn that our military, for which we are responsible, has murdered over a million civilian humans in Iraq?  Do they care that we murdered over 3 million in the Vietnam war?  Do they use medicine when they are ill?

Folks, there are REAL problems in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, you ought to watch a slaughterhouse in action, or watch biological researcher, or watch drug and cosmetics tests or grow up on a farm, or, better, just grow up.  These animals are NOT native, they are bred in captivity for specific purposes.</p>
<p>As far as the &#8220;pigeons&#8221;, actually rock doves, go, if ALL of them in North America disappeared overnight, it would be fine with me.  Incidentally, pheasant aren&#8217;t native either, nor are Hungarian partridges, or chukar partridges.</p>
<p>I just get livid over these animal rights nut cases.  Wonder how many of them have called the scum who supposedly represent them in &#8220;congress&#8221; traitors for destroying the Constitution and  accomplices in war crimes for continuing to fund the war.  Do these foks give a damn that our military, for which we are responsible, has murdered over a million civilian humans in Iraq?  Do they care that we murdered over 3 million in the Vietnam war?  Do they use medicine when they are ill?</p>
<p>Folks, there are REAL problems in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: DRAGONSLAYER</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/squabbling-over-the-pigeon-bill/#comment-24895</link>
		<dc:creator>DRAGONSLAYER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2357#comment-24895</guid>
		<description>KILL A PIGEON FOR CHRIST!!!!   I HATE THEM....HERE IN MANHATTAN THEY CRAP ALL OVER OUR CARS AND CANOPIES,  MAKE A RACKET AT NIGHT AND GENERALLY ARE A NUISANCE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KILL A PIGEON FOR CHRIST!!!!   I HATE THEM&#8230;.HERE IN MANHATTAN THEY CRAP ALL OVER OUR CARS AND CANOPIES,  MAKE A RACKET AT NIGHT AND GENERALLY ARE A NUISANCE.</p>
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