Comments on: Reflections on the Origins and Meaning of America’s Independence Day http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/reflections-on-the-origins-and-meaning-of-america%e2%80%99s-independence-day/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:03:40 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: John Wilkinson http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/reflections-on-the-origins-and-meaning-of-america%e2%80%99s-independence-day/#comment-24689 John Wilkinson Mon, 14 Jul 2008 03:00:06 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2313#comment-24689 this is all well and good, but why doesn't chuckman ever take a look at his canada. i'm a little tired of the self-righteous preachings from the hypocritical canadians. they still kiss the british queen's ass (and all that stands for, throughout history) -- yes they are part of the british commonwealth and recognize the queen as their supreme master; and exult in the rape and pillage of their own native population. but hey, they're the aristocracy, and we're the uncouth hillbillies who need lessons by those who speak gentlemanly condenscending queen's english while twirling knives in others' backs. why doesn't chuckman say something about the american war objectors who are being kicked out of canada? chuckman is upset that we no longer recognize his queen as our own, that we no longer heel before our english masters while the canadians never made that step. maybe we can write a few stories about your royalty, chuckman, about all their vices and then stack them up against the vices of the u.s. founders and see who's worse and who's more hypocritical. and why is canada joining us in all those adventures? and why was canada OK with us paying for and providing their defense during the cold war and afterwards, so that now they have money for all those social goodies while we don't. a little house cleaning is in order for your own house before you cast stones at another. this is all well and good, but why doesn’t chuckman ever take a look at his canada. i’m a little tired of the self-righteous preachings from the hypocritical canadians. they still kiss the british queen’s ass (and all that stands for, throughout history) — yes they are part of the british commonwealth and recognize the queen as their supreme master; and exult in the rape and pillage of their own native population. but hey, they’re the aristocracy, and we’re the uncouth hillbillies who need lessons by those who speak gentlemanly condenscending queen’s english while twirling knives in others’ backs. why doesn’t chuckman say something about the american war objectors who are being kicked out of canada?

chuckman is upset that we no longer recognize his queen as our own, that we no longer heel before our english masters while the canadians never made that step.

maybe we can write a few stories about your royalty, chuckman, about all their vices and then stack them up against the vices of the u.s. founders and see who’s worse and who’s more hypocritical.

and why is canada joining us in all those adventures? and why was canada OK with us paying for and providing their defense during the cold war and afterwards, so that now they have money for all those social goodies while we don’t. a little house cleaning is in order for your own house before you cast stones at another.

]]> By: Lloyd Rowsey http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/reflections-on-the-origins-and-meaning-of-america%e2%80%99s-independence-day/#comment-24005 Lloyd Rowsey Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:51:17 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2313#comment-24005 It's not a temple in Judea(?), Samson. It’s not a temple in Judea(?), Samson.

]]> By: Samson http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/reflections-on-the-origins-and-meaning-of-america%e2%80%99s-independence-day/#comment-24004 Samson Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:03:14 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2313#comment-24004 Funny how all the comments on 'anti-catholicism' don't mention Maryland, isn't it? Maybe that's because Maryland was a colony of Catholics who fled the anti-catholicism of England in the day. As usual with very shallow thinking trying to bunch everything under a very broad brush, it doesn't quite account for reality and the many different things one might find in 13 colonies scattered up and down the eastern US coast. BTW, the name Maryland itself is a hint. Its named after Mary, Queen of Scots, the catholic sister of Elizabeth. Funny how all the comments on ‘anti-catholicism’ don’t mention Maryland, isn’t it? Maybe that’s because Maryland was a colony of Catholics who fled the anti-catholicism of England in the day. As usual with very shallow thinking trying to bunch everything under a very broad brush, it doesn’t quite account for reality and the many different things one might find in 13 colonies scattered up and down the eastern US coast.

BTW, the name Maryland itself is a hint. Its named after Mary, Queen of Scots, the catholic sister of Elizabeth.

]]> By: Samson http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/reflections-on-the-origins-and-meaning-of-america%e2%80%99s-independence-day/#comment-24003 Samson Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:58:45 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2313#comment-24003 Amazing. To me, these ideas in the Declaration of Independence are the strongest card that we have that we can play. The strongest way to attack the crimes currently occurring in America is to refer back to the ideals the country was founded upon. The strongest way to attack the crimes currently occurring is to remember that our founders were revolutionaries who overthrew a tyrannt. By quoting their words, we get to go onto the attack. By recalling the ideals that the country was founded upon, we get to claim that we are the true American patriots. By bringing back to life the revolutionary tradition, we get to speak of real change today as a heritage that it is ours to own. Its a powerful attack against those who wrap themselves in the flag. To refer back to what that flag war really supposed to mean. But hey, in the finest traditions of the left, instead we just open fire on our allies. Lets trash something that could be of help to us. I get the feeling sometimes that there are plenty on the left who just like to tear down and destroy. Instead of writing a powerful piece about how different America is today from those ideals written in 1776, lets just attack those ideals and the people who wrote them. Basically, aim gun at foot and pull the trigger. Who cares if America never reached those original ideals? Who cares if colonial America wasn't some fantasy wonderland that was the perfect utopia? Who cares if the people who wrote the Declaration of Independence were human beings, which means that they weren't perfect? These are powerful ideas that have force in America today. All the more so because today's tyrants try to wrap their tyranny in a twisted version of these ideals. That makes it the perfect jujitsu style attack to take those ideals and turn them back upon today's tyrants. To use these ideals that fly so falsely today to restore freedom. But hey, its so much easier to write a whiny slash-and-burn article attacking what should be our best tool and natural allies. Like I said, in the finest traditions of the left. No friggin wonder we are on such a losing streak. Amazing. To me, these ideas in the Declaration of Independence are the strongest card that we have that we can play. The strongest way to attack the crimes currently occurring in America is to refer back to the ideals the country was founded upon. The strongest way to attack the crimes currently occurring is to remember that our founders were revolutionaries who overthrew a tyrannt.

By quoting their words, we get to go onto the attack. By recalling the ideals that the country was founded upon, we get to claim that we are the true American patriots. By bringing back to life the revolutionary tradition, we get to speak of real change today as a heritage that it is ours to own.

Its a powerful attack against those who wrap themselves in the flag. To refer back to what that flag war really supposed to mean.

But hey, in the finest traditions of the left, instead we just open fire on our allies. Lets trash something that could be of help to us. I get the feeling sometimes that there are plenty on the left who just like to tear down and destroy. Instead of writing a powerful piece about how different America is today from those ideals written in 1776, lets just attack those ideals and the people who wrote them. Basically, aim gun at foot and pull the trigger.

Who cares if America never reached those original ideals? Who cares if colonial America wasn’t some fantasy wonderland that was the perfect utopia? Who cares if the people who wrote the Declaration of Independence were human beings, which means that they weren’t perfect?

These are powerful ideas that have force in America today. All the more so because today’s tyrants try to wrap their tyranny in a twisted version of these ideals. That makes it the perfect jujitsu style attack to take those ideals and turn them back upon today’s tyrants. To use these ideals that fly so falsely today to restore freedom.

But hey, its so much easier to write a whiny slash-and-burn article attacking what should be our best tool and natural allies. Like I said, in the finest traditions of the left. No friggin wonder we are on such a losing streak.

]]> By: Lloyd Rowsey http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/reflections-on-the-origins-and-meaning-of-america%e2%80%99s-independence-day/#comment-23999 Lloyd Rowsey Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:09:21 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2313#comment-23999 And lest readers think Chuckman eschews humor, they might read his (first?) Dissident Voice article: Falwell’s Legacy by John Chuckman / May 16th, 2007 That great bulk, Jerry Falwell, has eaten his last family-size bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken. Yes, Jerry has ordered his last tent-sized silk suit, taken his last bag of cash from lonely old ladies, and ordered his last truckload of cheap, merchandising Bibles with his picture stamped on the cover. Gone on to his reward, as they say. He donated his organs, the only gesture of kindness recorded in his adult life, but they were all rejected, except for the spleen, reportedly large enough to serve three. The following piece, written some years ago still aptly summarizes his legacy.... And lest readers think Chuckman eschews humor, they might read his (first?) Dissident Voice article:

Falwell’s Legacy
by John Chuckman / May 16th, 2007

That great bulk, Jerry Falwell, has eaten his last family-size bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Yes, Jerry has ordered his last tent-sized silk suit, taken his last bag of cash from lonely old ladies, and ordered his last truckload of cheap, merchandising Bibles with his picture stamped on the cover. Gone on to his reward, as they say.

He donated his organs, the only gesture of kindness recorded in his adult life, but they were all rejected, except for the spleen, reportedly large enough to serve three.

The following piece, written some years ago still aptly summarizes his legacy….

]]> By: Lloyd Rowsey http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/reflections-on-the-origins-and-meaning-of-america%e2%80%99s-independence-day/#comment-23998 Lloyd Rowsey Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:02:28 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2313#comment-23998 Thanks for this masterpiece, John Chuckman. More couldn't be said in fewer words about celebrating the Fourth of July in America in 2008. Thanks for this masterpiece, John Chuckman. More couldn’t be said in fewer words about celebrating the Fourth of July in America in 2008.

]]> By: Hue Longer http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/reflections-on-the-origins-and-meaning-of-america%e2%80%99s-independence-day/#comment-23984 Hue Longer Tue, 08 Jul 2008 03:37:44 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2313#comment-23984 bozhidar, pursuit of happiness was TJ's take on property...but that meant several things things too. bozhidar,

pursuit of happiness was TJ’s take on property…but that meant several things things too.

]]> By: Giorgio http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/reflections-on-the-origins-and-meaning-of-america%e2%80%99s-independence-day/#comment-23964 Giorgio Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:27:28 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2313#comment-23964 As for virulent anti-Catholicism in Britain at the time (and today in Ulster) what better than a quote from one (Alexander Pope) who in his lifetime was also repeatedly, and mercilessly, attacked by his detractors who mocked his despised religion (Catholicism) and deformed sick body at one and the same time by referring to him as A. P**E. RELIGION blushing veils her sacred fires, And unawares MORALITY expires, Nor public Flame, nor private, dares to shine; Nor human Spark is left, nor Glimpse divine! Lo! thy dread empire Chaos! is restor´d; Light dies before thy uncreating word: Thy hand, great Anarch! lets the curtain fall; And universal Darkness buries All, And MAKE ONE MIGHTY DUNCIAD OF ALL! As for virulent anti-Catholicism in Britain at the time (and today in Ulster) what better than a quote from one (Alexander Pope) who in his lifetime was also repeatedly, and mercilessly, attacked by his detractors who mocked his despised religion (Catholicism) and deformed sick body at one and the same time by referring to him
as A. P**E.

RELIGION blushing veils her sacred fires,
And unawares MORALITY expires,
Nor public Flame, nor private, dares to shine;
Nor human Spark is left, nor Glimpse divine!
Lo! thy dread empire Chaos! is restor´d;
Light dies before thy uncreating word:
Thy hand, great Anarch! lets the curtain fall;
And universal Darkness buries All,
And MAKE ONE MIGHTY DUNCIAD OF ALL!

]]> By: bozhidar balkas http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/reflections-on-the-origins-and-meaning-of-america%e2%80%99s-independence-day/#comment-23955 bozhidar balkas Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:31:09 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2313#comment-23955 ah, constitutions. full of promises just like quran, torah, bible, politicians, clergy, generals, et al. consider "pursuit of happiness" what does that mean? and does a person or persons tell another person. Eh, pursue happiness! u idiot!do i have to tell u that, u moron! oh what wd clergy/political class of life do if they were not allowed to make promises? probablydie! next time a politico or cleric makes a promise tell him to get lost or laugh. i made only one promise to my wife. i told her, If u marry me, u'l have lots of trouble! she sure did. i also told her, I came to make mistakes. but obama is not going say that even tho we know w. certainty that he'l make a bundle of them. and not just mistakes but also do crimes against weekest among us. thank u why do we put up w. this nonsense? ah, constitutions. full of promises just like quran, torah, bible, politicians, clergy, generals, et al.
consider “pursuit of happiness” what does that mean? and does a person or persons tell another person. Eh, pursue happiness! u idiot!do i have to tell u that, u moron!
oh what wd clergy/political class of life do if they were not allowed to make promises?
probablydie!
next time a politico or cleric makes a promise tell him to get lost or laugh.
i made only one promise to my wife. i told her, If u marry me, u’l have lots of trouble! she sure did. i also told her, I came to make mistakes.
but obama is not going say that even tho we know w. certainty that he’l make a bundle of them.
and not just mistakes but also do crimes against weekest among us. thank u
why do we put up w. this nonsense?

]]> By: Michael Kenny http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/reflections-on-the-origins-and-meaning-of-america%e2%80%99s-independence-day/#comment-23954 Michael Kenny Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:29:08 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2313#comment-23954 On anti-Catholicism: the original NJ state constitution of 1776, for example, banned Catholics from voting or holding office. That ban was only removed in the second constitution of 1844. The same ban existed, of course, in Britain, until 1829 and, indeed, was quite a liberal disposition in 1776 since it was a criminal offence in GB to be a Catholic until the 1780s (the infamous Penal Laws!). On anti-Catholicism: the original NJ state constitution of 1776, for example, banned Catholics from voting or holding office. That ban was only removed in the second constitution of 1844. The same ban existed, of course, in Britain, until 1829 and, indeed, was quite a liberal disposition in 1776 since it was a criminal offence in GB to be a Catholic until the 1780s (the infamous Penal Laws!).

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