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	<title>Comments on: Memories of Beer Lovers, Hemp Farmers &amp; Bloody Revolution</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/memories-of-beer-lovers-hemp-farmers-bloody-revolution/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/memories-of-beer-lovers-hemp-farmers-bloody-revolution/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: mike ely</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/memories-of-beer-lovers-hemp-farmers-bloody-revolution/#comment-25346</link>
		<dc:creator>mike ely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2370#comment-25346</guid>
		<description>I would be glad to send you the title of this book, NKB.

Unfortunately i&#039;m for from my library at the moment (on much needed vacation). Email me your request, and I&#039;ll deal with it on return.

yours, mike e</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be glad to send you the title of this book, NKB.</p>
<p>Unfortunately i&#8217;m for from my library at the moment (on much needed vacation). Email me your request, and I&#8217;ll deal with it on return.</p>
<p>yours, mike e</p>
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		<title>By: JBPM</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/memories-of-beer-lovers-hemp-farmers-bloody-revolution/#comment-25291</link>
		<dc:creator>JBPM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2370#comment-25291</guid>
		<description>Awesome article Mike! And what an irony that it was the beer drinkers, and not the hemp growers, who were on the right side. (Not that there&#039;s anything wrong with being a beer drinker, of course. Just that I don&#039;t normally associate them with radicalism.)

I&#039;m going to enjoy telling this to all my friends over, what else, beer and hemp!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome article Mike! And what an irony that it was the beer drinkers, and not the hemp growers, who were on the right side. (Not that there&#8217;s anything wrong with being a beer drinker, of course. Just that I don&#8217;t normally associate them with radicalism.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to enjoy telling this to all my friends over, what else, beer and hemp!</p>
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		<title>By: NKB</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/memories-of-beer-lovers-hemp-farmers-bloody-revolution/#comment-25100</link>
		<dc:creator>NKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2370#comment-25100</guid>
		<description>Mike Ely writes:

&quot;I have on my bookshelf a rare little book that gathers articles and histories from these German immigrant newspapers — and it is clear how they started to articulate deeply revolutionary views that spoke for a highly conscious and engaged working class population.&quot;

Could I trouble you for the title and author of this book? Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike Ely writes:</p>
<p>&#8220;I have on my bookshelf a rare little book that gathers articles and histories from these German immigrant newspapers — and it is clear how they started to articulate deeply revolutionary views that spoke for a highly conscious and engaged working class population.&#8221;</p>
<p>Could I trouble you for the title and author of this book? Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd Rowsey</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/memories-of-beer-lovers-hemp-farmers-bloody-revolution/#comment-25070</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd Rowsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2370#comment-25070</guid>
		<description>Evidently I was still composing my post when your first post appeared, Mike Ely.    On days when DV puts up numerous articles, posts sometimes can get &quot;lagged&quot; into the late morning (PST).

Howsoever, thank you for your excellently written (as well as informative) article.   And thank you for interacting with us posters subsequently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evidently I was still composing my post when your first post appeared, Mike Ely.    On days when DV puts up numerous articles, posts sometimes can get &#8220;lagged&#8221; into the late morning (PST).</p>
<p>Howsoever, thank you for your excellently written (as well as informative) article.   And thank you for interacting with us posters subsequently.</p>
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		<title>By: mike ely</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/memories-of-beer-lovers-hemp-farmers-bloody-revolution/#comment-25058</link>
		<dc:creator>mike ely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2370#comment-25058</guid>
		<description>Evie:

I think you touch on another very important dynamic of U.S. history to analyse and expose: how the often oppressed immigrant workers of the 19th century (and the 20th century Jewish ghettoes too), became &quot;white people&quot; -- and in that process sometimes became quite conservatized.

It is not just a matter of &quot;pass their sentiments along&quot; (as I&#039;m sure you know) from the civil war days over the following century. Because the ideas the grab people&#039;s imaginations and loyalties have a great deal to do with their political experiences and conditions (and how those conditions change over time).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evie:</p>
<p>I think you touch on another very important dynamic of U.S. history to analyse and expose: how the often oppressed immigrant workers of the 19th century (and the 20th century Jewish ghettoes too), became &#8220;white people&#8221; &#8212; and in that process sometimes became quite conservatized.</p>
<p>It is not just a matter of &#8220;pass their sentiments along&#8221; (as I&#8217;m sure you know) from the civil war days over the following century. Because the ideas the grab people&#8217;s imaginations and loyalties have a great deal to do with their political experiences and conditions (and how those conditions change over time).</p>
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		<title>By: evie</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/memories-of-beer-lovers-hemp-farmers-bloody-revolution/#comment-25053</link>
		<dc:creator>evie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 18:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2370#comment-25053</guid>
		<description>&quot;... a story of communist immigrant workers who didn’t speak English, who hated the mistreatment of kidnapped Africans in the United States, who had little love for America’s institutions, and who were willing to die (and kill!) to end the horrific practices of human slavery.&quot;

Too bad they didn&#039;t pass their sentiments along to descendants. Here in the Heartland you speak of there have been communities, known to some of us as Dutchtown, Germantown, etc., which produced some of the most rabid racists and racism I witnessed as a child in the 1950s.

Didn&#039;t Weydemeyer have to flee Europe when the communist revolution failed? Coming to America to practice capitalism (journalist, publisher, surveyor, briefly a military man until hospitalized for a &quot;nervous disorder&quot;), but keeping in touch with Marx/Engels?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; a story of communist immigrant workers who didn’t speak English, who hated the mistreatment of kidnapped Africans in the United States, who had little love for America’s institutions, and who were willing to die (and kill!) to end the horrific practices of human slavery.&#8221;</p>
<p>Too bad they didn&#8217;t pass their sentiments along to descendants. Here in the Heartland you speak of there have been communities, known to some of us as Dutchtown, Germantown, etc., which produced some of the most rabid racists and racism I witnessed as a child in the 1950s.</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t Weydemeyer have to flee Europe when the communist revolution failed? Coming to America to practice capitalism (journalist, publisher, surveyor, briefly a military man until hospitalized for a &#8220;nervous disorder&#8221;), but keeping in touch with Marx/Engels?</p>
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		<title>By: mark azman</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/memories-of-beer-lovers-hemp-farmers-bloody-revolution/#comment-25050</link>
		<dc:creator>mark azman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 18:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2370#comment-25050</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed your writing; nice distraction from the doom and gloom of the day.  I too agree Budweiser is near undrinkable when compared to the vast choices of beer we drinkers have today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed your writing; nice distraction from the doom and gloom of the day.  I too agree Budweiser is near undrinkable when compared to the vast choices of beer we drinkers have today.</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd Rowsey</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/memories-of-beer-lovers-hemp-farmers-bloody-revolution/#comment-25048</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd Rowsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2370#comment-25048</guid>
		<description>Have you read &quot;The 18th Brumaire of Louis Napoleon,&quot; Michael?  Do you know what those folks dying on the barricades in Paris in 1871 were called (and &quot;properly described as&quot;)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you read &#8220;The 18th Brumaire of Louis Napoleon,&#8221; Michael?  Do you know what those folks dying on the barricades in Paris in 1871 were called (and &#8220;properly described as&#8221;)?</p>
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		<title>By: mike ely</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/memories-of-beer-lovers-hemp-farmers-bloody-revolution/#comment-25046</link>
		<dc:creator>mike ely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2370#comment-25046</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment Michael. and please never call me Mister!

But help me understand your point: Why can&#039;t we call someone a communist before 1917?

First there were many communist currents before the Leninist one... including some that preceded capitalism, like Thomas Muncer&#039;s primitively communist movement of german peasants, and something roughly similar in the Ottoman empire under Sheik Bedreddin (whose revolutionary movement  spread the watchword &quot;share everything but your lover&#039;s lips).

there were utopian communists before Marx.

And the movement in St. Louis included some who embraced the recently written &quot;manifesto of the communist party.&quot;

so i think groupings among these workers were clearly communist (and even some who were explicitly Marxist.) 

Wydemeyer wrote a piece in a New York newspaper on &quot;the Dictatorship of the Proletariat&quot; in 1852 (ten years before he was an officer in these armed events).

so.... those are my reasons for calling them communist. Was that so wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment Michael. and please never call me Mister!</p>
<p>But help me understand your point: Why can&#8217;t we call someone a communist before 1917?</p>
<p>First there were many communist currents before the Leninist one&#8230; including some that preceded capitalism, like Thomas Muncer&#8217;s primitively communist movement of german peasants, and something roughly similar in the Ottoman empire under Sheik Bedreddin (whose revolutionary movement  spread the watchword &#8220;share everything but your lover&#8217;s lips).</p>
<p>there were utopian communists before Marx.</p>
<p>And the movement in St. Louis included some who embraced the recently written &#8220;manifesto of the communist party.&#8221;</p>
<p>so i think groupings among these workers were clearly communist (and even some who were explicitly Marxist.) </p>
<p>Wydemeyer wrote a piece in a New York newspaper on &#8220;the Dictatorship of the Proletariat&#8221; in 1852 (ten years before he was an officer in these armed events).</p>
<p>so&#8230;. those are my reasons for calling them communist. Was that so wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kenny</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/memories-of-beer-lovers-hemp-farmers-bloody-revolution/#comment-25039</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2370#comment-25039</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a lovely allegory here that Mr Ely seems to have missed. I&#039;m not convinced that you properly describe anyone as &quot;communist&quot; before 1917 but assuming that you can, what you have here is first the collapse of communism, then the collapse of American capitalism. Just like in the big, wide world!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a lovely allegory here that Mr Ely seems to have missed. I&#8217;m not convinced that you properly describe anyone as &#8220;communist&#8221; before 1917 but assuming that you can, what you have here is first the collapse of communism, then the collapse of American capitalism. Just like in the big, wide world!</p>
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		<title>By: luky</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/memories-of-beer-lovers-hemp-farmers-bloody-revolution/#comment-25032</link>
		<dc:creator>luky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2370#comment-25032</guid>
		<description>Great piece and a pleasure to read. Didn&#039;t know any about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great piece and a pleasure to read. Didn&#8217;t know any about it.</p>
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