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	<title>Comments on: In the Cause of Fear and Ignorance</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/in-the-cause-of-fear-and-ignorance/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/in-the-cause-of-fear-and-ignorance/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 May 2013 02:53:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Just Gimme Some Truth</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/in-the-cause-of-fear-and-ignorance/#comment-23912</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Gimme Some Truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 22:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2265#comment-23912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brian, please stop bringing Mugabe into this. I have lived there and know many Zimbabweans, all colours of the rainbow. Beautiful country but the poor are dying bad my man. Tortured and starved.  The US &amp; UK are multiple assassins but do not belittle those in Zim who are dying for the right to basic necessities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, please stop bringing Mugabe into this. I have lived there and know many Zimbabweans, all colours of the rainbow. Beautiful country but the poor are dying bad my man. Tortured and starved.  The US &amp; UK are multiple assassins but do not belittle those in Zim who are dying for the right to basic necessities.</p>
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		<title>By: bozhidar balkas</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/in-the-cause-of-fear-and-ignorance/#comment-23556</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar balkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2265#comment-23556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[correction:  &quot;u have the right to be stupid!&quot;  and not  &quot;stupid?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>correction:  &#8220;u have the right to be stupid!&#8221;  and not  &#8220;stupid?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: bozhidar balkas</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/in-the-cause-of-fear-and-ignorance/#comment-23555</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar balkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2265#comment-23555</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[my wife  asked me to write  to al-bushi and  put dwn this advice to him:
george!  u&#039;r 60yrs old.  u have the right not to listen anymore; u have the right not to learn a thing anymore; u have the right to be stupid?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my wife  asked me to write  to al-bushi and  put dwn this advice to him:<br />
george!  u&#8217;r 60yrs old.  u have the right not to listen anymore; u have the right not to learn a thing anymore; u have the right to be stupid?</p>
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		<title>By: bozhidar balkas</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/in-the-cause-of-fear-and-ignorance/#comment-23554</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar balkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2265#comment-23554</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[but  even  if  saddam/his gov&#039;t  shredded  people the best way was  still  not to wage war  but issue warrants  for arresting  alleged criminals  and issuing  ransom  of bns  on their heads.
after all saddam  had only  ab  6.5 bn  enemies.
US/UK/NATO/ISRAE l  don&#039;t shred  people but  hunt them. and, of course, hunting  is much more  exciting sport than shredding meat.    
the problem w. hunting  people is  that hunters  r  not allowed to film  the hunt and thus  make bns from  paying viewers.
thank u]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but  even  if  saddam/his gov&#8217;t  shredded  people the best way was  still  not to wage war  but issue warrants  for arresting  alleged criminals  and issuing  ransom  of bns  on their heads.<br />
after all saddam  had only  ab  6.5 bn  enemies.<br />
US/UK/NATO/ISRAE l  don&#8217;t shred  people but  hunt them. and, of course, hunting  is much more  exciting sport than shredding meat.<br />
the problem w. hunting  people is  that hunters  r  not allowed to film  the hunt and thus  make bns from  paying viewers.<br />
thank u</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Koontz</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/in-the-cause-of-fear-and-ignorance/#comment-23335</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Koontz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 00:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2265#comment-23335</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Muslims in Western countries should be forming defense organizations to protect themselves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Muslims in Western countries should be forming defense organizations to protect themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: brian</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/in-the-cause-of-fear-and-ignorance/#comment-23329</link>
		<dc:creator>brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2265#comment-23329</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[fear and ignorance and both cause and effect. In the case of Zimbabwe, the fear and ignorance created in the public by the media,  arise from fear and ignorance IN the media. Fear of an independent black leader, ignorance of the real history of Zimbabwe.

People may recall how leading up to the war against iraq, there were stories of saddam feet shredders, this sent a collective shudder thru the gullible masses, who trust their media would never lie, and so helped launch the war. The same tactics are evident in the war against Zimbabwe

FYI on the saddam feet shredder story...pity it was investigated to late to prevent &gt; 1 million people being killed by the &#039;Democracy (regd TM) Promoters&#039;:

&#039;In the buildup to the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, Saddam Hussein had created new torture methods and he used industrial shredding machines to do away with his enemies. The leading supporter of this allegation was British Labour MP Ann Clwyd. On March 18, 2003, days before the military actions began, the British newspaper The Times ran an article written by her that was titled, &quot;See men shredded, then you say you don’t back war.&quot;

Three days before the invasion, Clwyd spoke in the House of Commons and described how male prisoners in Iraq were dropped into a machine &quot;designed for shredding plastic,&quot; and their minced remains were &quot;placed in plastic bags&quot; and later used as &quot;fish food.&quot; She alleged that sometimes, the victims were dropped in the machines feet-first so they could briefly view their own mutilation before death.

Australian Prime Minister Howard used the story to his great advantage. He supported the war and was about to send troops, despite overwhelming opposition from his public. After the story appeared in The Times, he addressed his nation and said he wanted to stop the ongoing crimes of the Ba’athist regime in Iraq including the &quot;human shredding machine&quot; that was used &quot;as a vehicle for putting to death critics of Saddam Hussein.&quot;

Others used this story for anti-Saddam fodder. Andrew Sullivan of the Sunday Times of Great Britain stated that Clwyd’s report showed &quot;clearly, unforgettably, indelibly&quot; that &quot;the Saddam regime is evil.&quot; Daily Mail columnist Melanie Phillips described the shredder in which &quot;bodies got chewed up from foot to head.&quot; In The Telegraph, Mark Steyn criticized the anti-war movement with these words: 

If it’s a choice between letting some carbonated beverage crony of Dick Cheney get a piece of the Nasiriyah soft-drinks market or allowing Saddam to go on feeding his subjects feet-first into the industrial shredder for another decade or three, then the &quot;peace&quot; activists will take the lesser of two evils — i.e., crank up the shredder.
...
&#039;When Ann Clwyd was asked about her sources of information, she said that she had interviewed an Iraqi in northern Iraq. She was eventually asked who the person was and if he was telling the truth. Clwyd told journalist Brendan O’Neill of The Spectator, &quot;We heard it from a victim; we heard it and we believed it.&quot; When O’Neill asked her if anything was done to check the victim’s statement against other witness statements or other evidence for a shredding machine, she replied, &quot;Well, no.&quot;

The incidents supposedly took place at Abu Ghraib Prison, an institution made world famous by prisoner torture; torture perpetrated by the U.S. against Iraqi inmates. When all was said and done, the shredding incidents that received worldwide publicity amounted to the uncorroborated story of one person interviewed in northern Iraq. This, in itself, is hardly evidence to use to send a country to war.

O’Neill began to track down people who could either corroborate or deny the legitimacy of shredders being used to kill prisoners. He found an Iraqi doctor who worked at the hospital attached to the prison at Abu Ghraib in 1997 and 1998. The doctor’s job was to attend to those prisoners who had been executed. He told O’Neill, &quot;We had to see the dead prisoners to make sure that they were dead. Then we would write a death certificate for them.&quot;

This doctor refuted any stories about the shredding machines. O’Neill asked him if he ever attended or heard of prisoners who had been shredded. He replied, &quot;No.&quot; Then, he was asked if any of the other doctors at the prison spoke of a shredding machine used to execute prisoners. The doctor responded, &quot;No, no, never. The method of execution was hanging; as far as I know, that was the only form of execution used at Abu Ghraib.&quot;
etc
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=35343]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fear and ignorance and both cause and effect. In the case of Zimbabwe, the fear and ignorance created in the public by the media,  arise from fear and ignorance IN the media. Fear of an independent black leader, ignorance of the real history of Zimbabwe.</p>
<p>People may recall how leading up to the war against iraq, there were stories of saddam feet shredders, this sent a collective shudder thru the gullible masses, who trust their media would never lie, and so helped launch the war. The same tactics are evident in the war against Zimbabwe</p>
<p>FYI on the saddam feet shredder story&#8230;pity it was investigated to late to prevent &gt; 1 million people being killed by the &#8216;Democracy (regd TM) Promoters&#8217;:</p>
<p>&#8216;In the buildup to the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, Saddam Hussein had created new torture methods and he used industrial shredding machines to do away with his enemies. The leading supporter of this allegation was British Labour MP Ann Clwyd. On March 18, 2003, days before the military actions began, the British newspaper The Times ran an article written by her that was titled, &#8220;See men shredded, then you say you don’t back war.&#8221;</p>
<p>Three days before the invasion, Clwyd spoke in the House of Commons and described how male prisoners in Iraq were dropped into a machine &#8220;designed for shredding plastic,&#8221; and their minced remains were &#8220;placed in plastic bags&#8221; and later used as &#8220;fish food.&#8221; She alleged that sometimes, the victims were dropped in the machines feet-first so they could briefly view their own mutilation before death.</p>
<p>Australian Prime Minister Howard used the story to his great advantage. He supported the war and was about to send troops, despite overwhelming opposition from his public. After the story appeared in The Times, he addressed his nation and said he wanted to stop the ongoing crimes of the Ba’athist regime in Iraq including the &#8220;human shredding machine&#8221; that was used &#8220;as a vehicle for putting to death critics of Saddam Hussein.&#8221;</p>
<p>Others used this story for anti-Saddam fodder. Andrew Sullivan of the Sunday Times of Great Britain stated that Clwyd’s report showed &#8220;clearly, unforgettably, indelibly&#8221; that &#8220;the Saddam regime is evil.&#8221; Daily Mail columnist Melanie Phillips described the shredder in which &#8220;bodies got chewed up from foot to head.&#8221; In The Telegraph, Mark Steyn criticized the anti-war movement with these words: </p>
<p>If it’s a choice between letting some carbonated beverage crony of Dick Cheney get a piece of the Nasiriyah soft-drinks market or allowing Saddam to go on feeding his subjects feet-first into the industrial shredder for another decade or three, then the &#8220;peace&#8221; activists will take the lesser of two evils — i.e., crank up the shredder.<br />
&#8230;<br />
&#8216;When Ann Clwyd was asked about her sources of information, she said that she had interviewed an Iraqi in northern Iraq. She was eventually asked who the person was and if he was telling the truth. Clwyd told journalist Brendan O’Neill of The Spectator, &#8220;We heard it from a victim; we heard it and we believed it.&#8221; When O’Neill asked her if anything was done to check the victim’s statement against other witness statements or other evidence for a shredding machine, she replied, &#8220;Well, no.&#8221;</p>
<p>The incidents supposedly took place at Abu Ghraib Prison, an institution made world famous by prisoner torture; torture perpetrated by the U.S. against Iraqi inmates. When all was said and done, the shredding incidents that received worldwide publicity amounted to the uncorroborated story of one person interviewed in northern Iraq. This, in itself, is hardly evidence to use to send a country to war.</p>
<p>O’Neill began to track down people who could either corroborate or deny the legitimacy of shredders being used to kill prisoners. He found an Iraqi doctor who worked at the hospital attached to the prison at Abu Ghraib in 1997 and 1998. The doctor’s job was to attend to those prisoners who had been executed. He told O’Neill, &#8220;We had to see the dead prisoners to make sure that they were dead. Then we would write a death certificate for them.&#8221;</p>
<p>This doctor refuted any stories about the shredding machines. O’Neill asked him if he ever attended or heard of prisoners who had been shredded. He replied, &#8220;No.&#8221; Then, he was asked if any of the other doctors at the prison spoke of a shredding machine used to execute prisoners. The doctor responded, &#8220;No, no, never. The method of execution was hanging; as far as I know, that was the only form of execution used at Abu Ghraib.&#8221;<br />
etc<br />
<a href="http://www.uruknet.info/?p=35343" rel="nofollow">http://www.uruknet.info/?p=35343</a></p>
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		<title>By: evie</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/in-the-cause-of-fear-and-ignorance/#comment-23313</link>
		<dc:creator>evie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2265#comment-23313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know why US and Brits, predominantly white folks, talk as if their countries ever had moral fabric, although they did stop public disembowelment and picnic lynchings.

The game hasn&#039;t changed - it&#039;s just more in your face.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why US and Brits, predominantly white folks, talk as if their countries ever had moral fabric, although they did stop public disembowelment and picnic lynchings.</p>
<p>The game hasn&#8217;t changed &#8211; it&#8217;s just more in your face.</p>
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		<title>By: bozhidar balkas</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/in-the-cause-of-fear-and-ignorance/#comment-23281</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar balkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 13:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2265#comment-23281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[some muslim lands  r  marked  for the final  sol&#039;n.   with  EU/US  now slightly to the right  of old-fashioned fascism of franco/mussolini  we can  expect  destruction  of  lebanon, palestine, syria, iraq, iran in order  to make  lebensraum  for those people who might be forced to  accept judaism or christianity.
in any case, final sol&#039;n  is coming. we may be struck by a comet or global warming might saute us to &#039;heaven&#039;.
we also may have  a good nuclear war.    thank u]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>some muslim lands  r  marked  for the final  sol&#8217;n.   with  EU/US  now slightly to the right  of old-fashioned fascism of franco/mussolini  we can  expect  destruction  of  lebanon, palestine, syria, iraq, iran in order  to make  lebensraum  for those people who might be forced to  accept judaism or christianity.<br />
in any case, final sol&#8217;n  is coming. we may be struck by a comet or global warming might saute us to &#8216;heaven&#8217;.<br />
we also may have  a good nuclear war.    thank u</p>
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