Comments on: Why is Capitalism Failing Us? http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:12:24 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Josh http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-40548 Josh Mon, 09 Mar 2009 11:52:01 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-40548 I wanted to add that To makes things really simple. We as a human race on this planet are disrupting the delicate balance and nature that our earth provides us. What can we do to stop it ? Well as screwed up as it sounds the scale needs to be tipped the other way for while. Yes their will need to be some kind of a radical event. A massive Renaissance, or way of thinking would be the most healthy and promising way to fix the issue, The Green movement although small would be a example of such a renaissance but it would have to be at a global scale. Alternatives include a End War which could very well end up in the destruction of the earth for a long time. Will the earth recover? I don't know but with my highest hopes yes.. Nature will indeed take its course and repopulate the earth with life again long after we have destroyed it along with ourselves(hopefully not all of us). Another scenario that could happen would be a not so destructive end war. The kind of war that would be very one sided, Sorta like how united states like any other power hungry nation would... probably plans for world democratic domination. That might bring about a new level of world organization but the chances of something like that working i just don't see that happening, especially with how our government works these days, something as simple as Katrina couldn't be solved with our current government system. Yes i like Obama but do i believe he alone can fix such a corrupt government no. However do i believe that he is doing his part like everyone else should be doing maybe. Bottom line. Something needs to be done. I for one support the Renaissance idea or the birth of a new outlook on life, preferably something close to what i have proposed. Then i think people will start taking responsibility for their own actions and adapting themselves to the earth again rather then trying to alienate them selves from it. I have plans to do my part that's for sure and that's done one good deed at a time, one friend at a time, one hard days work at a time, and one act of love at a time. I wanted to add that To makes things really simple. We as a human race on this planet are disrupting the delicate balance and nature that our earth provides us. What can we do to stop it ? Well as screwed up as it sounds the scale needs to be tipped the other way for while. Yes their will need to be some kind of a radical event. A massive Renaissance, or way of thinking would be the most healthy and promising way to fix the issue, The Green movement although small would be a example of such a renaissance but it would have to be at a global scale. Alternatives include a End War which could very well end up in the destruction of the earth for a long time. Will the earth recover? I don’t know but with my highest hopes yes.. Nature will indeed take its course and repopulate the earth with life again long after we have destroyed it along with ourselves(hopefully not all of us). Another scenario that could happen would be a not so destructive end war. The kind of war that would be very one sided, Sorta like how united states like any other power hungry nation would… probably plans for world democratic domination. That might bring about a new level of world organization but the chances of something like that working i just don’t see that happening, especially with how our government works these days, something as simple as Katrina couldn’t be solved with our current government system. Yes i like Obama but do i believe he alone can fix such a corrupt government no. However do i believe that he is doing his part like everyone else should be doing maybe. Bottom line. Something needs to be done. I for one support the Renaissance idea or the birth of a new outlook on life, preferably something close to what i have proposed. Then i think people will start taking responsibility for their own actions and adapting themselves to the earth again rather then trying to alienate them selves from it. I have plans to do my part that’s for sure and that’s done one good deed at a time, one friend at a time, one hard days work at a time, and one act of love at a time.

]]> By: Josh http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-40546 Josh Mon, 09 Mar 2009 10:59:24 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-40546 Ive read most of the comments on this page and I was very impressed by all the different perspectives on capitalism. I agree with Doug that America's economy is flawed and that the origin of this issue comes from people that favor dark virtues such as greed, addiction to power etc. As a Young US citizen I do feel highly desensitized to the world around me. Watching as the world falls apart and people starving on CNN. I feel helpless to do something about it and trapped because I can barely keep my own life together as it is financially. I would like to add though a bit of my own philosophy as to how this world works. While i may not be the most experienced or educated person in the world I do have a love for discussing these matters because I believe one only needs to experience life talk about it. While I am not formerly christian or any other form of religion that I know of I have come to admire most religions for their attempt to communicate what I believe to be a highly misinterpreted metaphorically explained answer to life. We as a human race have always had a high level of adversity amongst our selves and the environment, much higher then any other living creature on the planet or at least as we like to think we do. To prevent my self from going off topic which i often do, I just want to point out that while we are trying to come up with this myth that we call a perfect society many people just don't seem to realize, especially members of some the of major ruling religions today that such a society simply isn't possible without severe cost. Light cannot exist without dark, Man cannot exist without women, Life cannot exist with out death, Love cannot exist without despair (or absence of love) not entirely sure what word to use... hate cant be one of them because its part of love, depending on how you define the word. Nature is the word we use to describe this balance. So back to the whole government thing, I honestly don't believe these (elitist) are living the dream life that we all think they are enjoying. In fact many of them are in their own version of what we like to call hell (metaphorically speaking) because they live their lives based on virtues such as greed, power, etc. Now I'm not suggesting that this is karma, i really don't believe in that but what i am saying is that most religions teach us old simple wisdom that if we live based on certain virtues or actions it is more likely that we will experience a certain quality of living based on those actions. Sorta like a far more complicated system of physics based on living your life. This is where i bring up the rest of us. We are fortunate enough to be a little more capable to seeing this truth in life because we depend on each other and our families and friends to get by in life. Many people don't even realized that the key to what we call happiness is simply Love. That is it. Yes of course their is much conflict around us and even in the relationships that we have to experience love but that is the Beautiful thing about love and life. Its not total and complete happiness or joy or hate or sadness its the absolutely divine melding of all those emotions combined that we experience in life that makes a (Great) Life. The more the emotions and the more the variety of emotions kept at a balance the happier we are. Today as a society we are taking away this variety by destroying something many people aren't even aware of, where destroying heaven and that heaven is called Earth. Ive read most of the comments on this page and I was very impressed by all the different perspectives on capitalism. I agree with Doug that America’s economy is flawed and that the origin of this issue comes from people that favor dark virtues such as greed, addiction to power etc. As a Young US citizen I do feel highly desensitized to the world around me. Watching as the world falls apart and people starving on CNN. I feel helpless to do something about it and trapped because I can barely keep my own life together as it is financially. I would like to add though a bit of my own philosophy as to how this world works. While i may not be the most experienced or educated person in the world I do have a love for discussing these matters because I believe one only needs to experience life talk about it. While I am not formerly christian or any other form of religion that I know of I have come to admire most religions for their attempt to communicate what I believe to be a highly misinterpreted metaphorically explained answer to life. We as a human race have always had a high level of adversity amongst our selves and the environment, much higher then any other living creature on the planet or at least as we like to think we do. To prevent my self from going off topic which i often do, I just want to point out that while we are trying to come up with this myth that we call a perfect society many people just don’t seem to realize, especially members of some the of major ruling religions today that such a society simply isn’t possible without severe cost. Light cannot exist without dark, Man cannot exist without women, Life cannot exist with out death, Love cannot exist without despair (or absence of love) not entirely sure what word to use… hate cant be one of them because its part of love, depending on how you define the word. Nature is the word we use to describe this balance.

So back to the whole government thing, I honestly don’t believe these (elitist) are living the dream life that we all think they are enjoying. In fact many of them are in their own version of what we like to call hell (metaphorically speaking) because they live their lives based on virtues such as greed, power, etc. Now I’m not suggesting that this is karma, i really don’t believe in that but what i am saying is that most religions teach us old simple wisdom that if we live based on certain virtues or actions it is more likely that we will experience a certain quality of living based on those actions. Sorta like a far more complicated system of physics based on living your life.

This is where i bring up the rest of us. We are fortunate enough to be a little more capable to seeing this truth in life because we depend on each other and our families and friends to get by in life. Many people don’t even realized that the key to what we call happiness is simply Love. That is it. Yes of course their is much conflict around us and even in the relationships that we have to experience love but that is the Beautiful thing about love and life. Its not total and complete happiness or joy or hate or sadness its the absolutely divine melding of all those emotions combined that we experience in life that makes a (Great) Life. The more the emotions and the more the variety of emotions kept at a balance the happier we are. Today as a society we are taking away this variety by destroying something many people aren’t even aware of, where destroying heaven and that heaven is called Earth.

]]> By: Bryan Kimakowich http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-34926 Bryan Kimakowich Thu, 01 Jan 2009 04:14:07 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-34926 This is a very insightful article. The responses I have read have also impressed me. I am not a capitalist. I am also not a Communist. I am neither a Small C conservative nor a Liberal. I am not even an American. Before I begin, I must pay homage to your nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. I seek only the truth. It is impossible to define me or my views. Anyone attempting to label or define me will have a full-time job trying to keep up. You have raised so many questions and accurately outlined so many problems that it is difficult to figure out where to begin. I think that I will therefore start at the beginning. The beginning was not 4 or 5 billion years ago, nor was it a million, nor was it 70,000 years ago. The beginning was not also 'The Magna Carta', however valuable that document was. Genesis occured in the years leading up to July the 4th, 1776. A unique situation developed between the 13 Colonies and the British Empire. The People of the Americas were, for the most part, self-governing. However, the seat of government rested with The House of Parliament, The House of Lords, and the English Monarch who was, of course, George the Third. The situation was taxation without representation. Of all the noble goals of the American Revolution, this one was of a more practical nature, but I believe it to be the most important because I believe it to be the most self-evident. It is, in fact, more of a law of nature that only a fool would waste time and effort resisting and yet the British Empire did so. Granting the Colonies full democratic representation in the British Government might have resulted in a very different history than we have seen, but I digress. The point I want to make is to actually ask a question. Do you believe that, in America or in any other nation, that there has ever existed, government of the People, by the People, and for the People. This was Abraham Lincoln's great exhortation to your nation, and to all mankind, that such government shall not be allowed to perish from this earth. Government of The People, by The People, and for The People, can only exist where there is one vote for one Citizen. In the beginning, it could be said that there was one vote for one citizen. This foundation of all democracy is, however, dependant of each citizen also being a taxpayer. All taxpayers are voters. However, all taxpayers are not citizens. All taxpayers receive proportional representation in a democratic government. Democracy itself has gone awry. No one or organization has power over us except that power which we give them. We have, unintentionally given away power by making businesses and corporations and other organizations pay taxes. Polititions are not evil, nor are they especially good. They are, quite properly, catering to the wishes of the largest taxpayers. There is a blinding array of taxes being levied by local, state, and federal governments from payroll taxes to sales taxes to inheritance taxes and corporate taxes. Many taxes are hidden from view. The reality is that you are always the source of this taxation. No corporation generates either profit or taxation. You, the employee do all the work inside the corporation that generates the profit which is then taxed. Since you are already the sole source of all tax revenue, all taxation must be collected from the income of each citizen. All other forms of taxation must be abolished in order to return to democracy. In order to return to one citizen, one vote. Only then will politicions cater to the wishes of the individual voters. After all taxes are coming off individual incomes, you might be shocked to discover the true rate of taxes you are actually paying, but the truth is that you have always been the ones paying these taxes anyway. This might be one of the first issues you deal with once you have restored democracy. All profits generated by all businesses, small, medium, and large, eventually end up as someone's individual's income. If all incomes are taxable, and all tax revenue comes from individual incomes, then, and only then, will you restore democracy. One citizen, one vote can only exist if each individual citizen is also each individual taxpayer. One might think that the bad guys in charge will not allow this to happen since it will result in the loss of their power to control the function of our governments and thereby perpetuate this terribly inefficient system we are calling capitalism. These people and the organizations they represent are mindlessly committed to the pursiut of profit in the same way that a crocodile pursues its hunger. Crocodiles react exactly the same way every time to the opportunity to kill prey. Steve Irwin demonstrated this by taking his newborn baby into a crocodile's enclosure in one hand while manipulating the large animal with the other. He was so confident that the crocodile's behaviour was so predictable that he knew that he and his child were in no danger at any time. Restoring democracy, I believe, is the first step to dealing with the problems you have outlined. Take back the power that you have inadvertantly given to the ruthless and uncaring people. I believe in God and I am also a Christian. I am called, as such, to love God, be thankful for the many blessings I and my family have received, and to look out for my fellow man. If the system under which we operate allows me to do these things, I can support it. If it does not, I am compelled to make changes where I can. The power does not rest with a small and powerful elite. It rests with you and me. We give away our power when we become afraid. The bad guys can use their resources to try to make us afraid. All we hear about in the news are causes for us to be afraid. If we lose our nerve and become afraid, the fear will lead to anger, the anger will lead to hate, and the hate will lead to our suffering. It is through our own hatred that we give away our power. The more I hate someone or some group or organization, the more they consume my thoughts and actions. Without me realizing it, they are able to manipulate my every thought and action. Mohandis K. Ghandi may have been the first leader to put into practice the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus reduced the ten commandments to two. Love God and love each other. The Mahatma, as they came to call him, had no soldiers, he was not an elected leader of a political party. He defeated the largest ever empire by claiming his freedom and showing his countrymen to clain their freedom by giving up their hatred for the British. The British were forced to negotiate with them and ultimately leave by their request without firing a single shot. When we let go of our hatred, we become free, and the power becomes ours once again. I think that when Jesus said that I am the truth, I think that this is what he meant. Again I say that what I am seeking is the truth. This is a very insightful article. The responses I have read have also impressed me. I am not a capitalist. I am also not a Communist. I am neither a Small C conservative nor a Liberal. I am not even an American. Before I begin, I must pay homage to your nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. I seek only the truth. It is impossible to define me or my views. Anyone attempting to label or define me will have a full-time job trying to keep up. You have raised so many questions and accurately outlined so many problems that it is difficult to figure out where to begin. I think that I will therefore start at the beginning. The beginning was not 4 or 5 billion years ago, nor was it a million, nor was it 70,000 years ago. The beginning was not also ‘The Magna Carta’, however valuable that document was. Genesis occured in the years leading up to July the 4th, 1776. A unique situation developed between the 13 Colonies and the British Empire. The People of the Americas were, for the most part, self-governing. However, the seat of government rested with The House of Parliament, The House of Lords, and the English Monarch who was, of course, George the Third. The situation was taxation without representation. Of all the noble goals of the American Revolution, this one was of a more practical nature, but I believe it to be the most important because I believe it to be the most self-evident. It is, in fact, more of a law of nature that only a fool would waste time and effort resisting and yet the British Empire did so. Granting the Colonies full democratic representation in the British Government might have resulted in a very different history than we have seen, but I digress. The point I want to make is to actually ask a question. Do you believe that, in America or in any other nation, that there has ever existed, government of the People, by the People, and for the People. This was Abraham Lincoln’s great exhortation to your nation, and to all mankind, that such government shall not be allowed to perish from this earth. Government of The People, by The People, and for The People, can only exist where there is one vote for one Citizen. In the beginning, it could be said that there was one vote for one citizen. This foundation of all democracy is, however, dependant of each citizen also being a taxpayer. All taxpayers are voters. However, all taxpayers are not citizens. All taxpayers receive proportional representation in a democratic government. Democracy itself has gone awry. No one or organization has power over us except that power which we give them. We have, unintentionally given away power by making businesses and corporations and other organizations pay taxes. Polititions are not evil, nor are they especially good. They are, quite properly, catering to the wishes of the largest taxpayers. There is a blinding array of taxes being levied by local, state, and federal governments from payroll taxes to sales taxes to inheritance taxes and corporate taxes. Many taxes are hidden from view. The reality is that you are always the source of this taxation. No corporation generates either profit or taxation. You, the employee do all the work inside the corporation that generates the profit which is then taxed. Since you are already the sole source of all tax revenue, all taxation must be collected from the income of each citizen. All other forms of taxation must be abolished in order to return to democracy. In order to return to one citizen, one vote. Only then will politicions cater to the wishes of the individual voters. After all taxes are coming off individual incomes, you might be shocked to discover the true rate of taxes you are actually paying, but the truth is that you have always been the ones paying these taxes anyway. This might be one of the first issues you deal with once you have restored democracy. All profits generated by all businesses, small, medium, and large, eventually end up as someone’s individual’s income. If all incomes are taxable, and all tax revenue comes from individual incomes, then, and only then, will you restore democracy. One citizen, one vote can only exist if each individual citizen is also each individual taxpayer. One might think that the bad guys in charge will not allow this to happen since it will result in the loss of their power to control the function of our governments and thereby perpetuate this terribly inefficient system we are calling capitalism. These people and the organizations they represent are mindlessly committed to the pursiut of profit in the same way that a crocodile pursues its hunger. Crocodiles react exactly the same way every time to the opportunity to kill prey. Steve Irwin demonstrated this by taking his newborn baby into a crocodile’s enclosure in one hand while manipulating the large animal with the other. He was so confident that the crocodile’s behaviour was so predictable that he knew that he and his child were in no danger at any time. Restoring democracy, I believe, is the first step to dealing with the problems you have outlined. Take back the power that you have inadvertantly given to the ruthless and uncaring people. I believe in God and I am also a Christian. I am called, as such, to love God, be thankful for the many blessings I and my family have received, and to look out for my fellow man. If the system under which we operate allows me to do these things, I can support it. If it does not, I am compelled to make changes where I can. The power does not rest with a small and powerful elite. It rests with you and me. We give away our power when we become afraid. The bad guys can use their resources to try to make us afraid. All we hear about in the news are causes for us to be afraid. If we lose our nerve and become afraid, the fear will lead to anger, the anger will lead to hate, and the hate will lead to our suffering. It is through our own hatred that we give away our power. The more I hate someone or some group or organization, the more they consume my thoughts and actions. Without me realizing it, they are able to manipulate my every thought and action. Mohandis K. Ghandi may have been the first leader to put into practice the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus reduced the ten commandments to two. Love God and love each other. The Mahatma, as they came to call him, had no soldiers, he was not an elected leader of a political party. He defeated the largest ever empire by claiming his freedom and showing his countrymen to clain their freedom by giving up their hatred for the British. The British were forced to negotiate with them and ultimately leave by their request without firing a single shot. When we let go of our hatred, we become free, and the power becomes ours once again. I think that when Jesus said that I am the truth, I think that this is what he meant. Again I say that what I am seeking is the truth.

]]> By: Wingnut http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-23015 Wingnut Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:31:06 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-23015 Don, I just LOVE your quotings! In my opinion, you are one of the most tasty posters in the world. I could only DREAM of being intelligent enough to find those quotes from historical figures, and have them be applicable and pertinent as you make them be. I really enjoy your posts, Don Hawkins! Thanks! Good stuff. By chance, are you THE world famous Army radiologist Don Hawkins? Now, since things have attention-sagged a bit, lets talk about brs's quality comments. brs: As long as there is inherited wealth the playing field is not level. Those without inherited wealth are forced to take what is offered. Those with it use the power of the state to force their will on the rest of us. Those with family connections collude to keep wages down even below the cost of living. Wing: Yep, well said. "Old Gold", crony gold, bloodlined gold, all the "biased" and favoritism stuff. But to keep things TOTALLY fair, lets not forget to include those whose religion disallows competing, and thus... cannot "play the game" whatsoever. They prefer to share, not compete... whether the competition is fair or not. Folks like me (Christian socialist commune-lovers) (public library lovers) ... want nothing to do with competing whatsoever... so lets not box-out such folks from having basic wellbeing as well. We are often called "the meek"... and we don't chase luxuries, we don't believe in ownership of Earth-owned materials and things made there-of, and we often take joy in watching other people be happy. We DON'T compete. We're the Christians and we're a very proud and integrity-filled group. Don't leave us out in the cold... we're very loving and don't deserve being mistreated. We SHOULD be allowed to follow our "can't compete" religion, and not be shoved-off-of the planet. brs: They have their own unions forged in the prep schools and through family ties. They will use the power of the state to break up any similar worker combinations. This was done through murder, military and police action through the 1930’s and the courts and legislatures since. The only government interference the upper classes oppose is any limits to their exploitation. Government handouts and support to the upper class and controls on workers or small businesses are perfectly acceptable. Wing: Yep, well said and thought. Disgusting, eh? brs: No, the capitalist system is set up to benefit the inherited wealth crony capitalist class. Their is no free competition and will not be as long as wealth is passed to heirs who have not earned it. The theory of free competition and competitive markets is just paper theory and fairy castles spun in air. Wing: Yep, well said. And again, don't forget about us Christians who do the OPPOSITE of competing... cooperating. (sharing) You WILL NOT SEE the parental policy reversal from share share share, to fight fight fight... for OUR 18 yr olds. We maintain a share share share policy the whole way, and we believe there is no such thing as "out there" (versus "in here") and there is no such thing as "they" or "them" (versus "we" or "us") and thus we believe in the abolishment of ALL borders, including yard fences of ownership. We believe that NEVER should the word "MY" be used, only "a" and "the"... and so we believe in no ownership except one's own(ed) body and brain. Example: My car, my wife, my lawyer, my doctor, my lunch break, my kids, my divorce, my cigarette, my coffee and my doughnut, etc etc. ALL "my" could be replaced with "a" or "the"... once the planet abolishes ownership and uses a commune instead. (USA public library-like supply/survival system). brs: It is not like that in the real world. It would be great if everybody competed completely freely and honestly as in capitalist theory just like the theory of the communists would be great where everyone works together honestly and goods given according to each persons needs. Wing: And again, don't forget those who hate and cannot do... competing. We do cooperating instead. Good points, brs and all. I just wanted to make sure that... in the great us/them wars... don't forget about the peacemakers/peacekeepers... who want an end to the us versus them (buyer versus seller) wars. We Christian socialists should get the right to have our "STOP COMPETING NOW!" request... weighed and considered fairly for correctness and wisdom... and thus potentially be THE new national/world direction. We want NON-competing to be allowed to fairly compete in the CHOOSING A NATION'S/WORLD'S PROPER DIRECTION weigh-offs. We are the barnraisers and potluckers. We're the Stone Soup gang... and we're coooool. We're the hippies... and we STILL dislike establishments... and prefer peace and love and communes (sharing). Take care, gang! Wingnut - Age 50 - Anti-capitalism-ist Don, I just LOVE your quotings! In my opinion, you are one of the most tasty posters in the world. I could only DREAM of being intelligent enough to find those quotes from historical figures, and have them be applicable and pertinent as you make them be. I really enjoy your posts, Don Hawkins! Thanks! Good stuff. By chance, are you THE world famous Army radiologist Don Hawkins?

Now, since things have attention-sagged a bit, lets talk about brs’s quality comments.

brs: As long as there is inherited wealth the playing field is not level. Those without inherited wealth are forced to take what is offered. Those with it use the power of the state to force their will on the rest of us. Those with family connections collude to keep wages down even below the cost of living.

Wing: Yep, well said. “Old Gold”, crony gold, bloodlined gold, all the “biased” and favoritism stuff. But to keep things TOTALLY fair, lets not forget to include those whose religion disallows competing, and thus… cannot “play the game” whatsoever. They prefer to share, not compete… whether the competition is fair or not. Folks like me (Christian socialist commune-lovers) (public library lovers) … want nothing to do with competing whatsoever… so lets not box-out such folks from having basic wellbeing as well. We are often called “the meek”… and we don’t chase luxuries, we don’t believe in ownership of Earth-owned materials and things made there-of, and we often take joy in watching other people be happy. We DON’T compete. We’re the Christians and we’re a very proud and integrity-filled group. Don’t leave us out in the cold… we’re very loving and don’t deserve being mistreated. We SHOULD be allowed to follow our “can’t compete” religion, and not be shoved-off-of the planet.

brs: They have their own unions forged in the prep schools and through family ties. They will use the power of the state to break up any similar worker combinations. This was done through murder, military and police action through the 1930’s and the courts and legislatures since. The only government interference the upper classes oppose is any limits to their exploitation. Government handouts and support to the upper class and controls on workers or small businesses are perfectly acceptable.

Wing: Yep, well said and thought. Disgusting, eh?

brs: No, the capitalist system is set up to benefit the inherited wealth crony capitalist class. Their is no free competition and will not be as long as wealth is passed to heirs who have not earned it. The theory of free competition and competitive markets is just paper theory and fairy castles spun in air.

Wing: Yep, well said. And again, don’t forget about us Christians who do the OPPOSITE of competing… cooperating. (sharing) You WILL NOT SEE the parental policy reversal from share share share, to fight fight fight… for OUR 18 yr olds. We maintain a share share share policy the whole way, and we believe there is no such thing as “out there” (versus “in here”) and there is no such thing as “they” or “them” (versus “we” or “us”) and thus we believe in the abolishment of ALL borders, including yard fences of ownership. We believe that NEVER should the word “MY” be used, only “a” and “the”… and so we believe in no ownership except one’s own(ed) body and brain. Example: My car, my wife, my lawyer, my doctor, my lunch break, my kids, my divorce, my cigarette, my coffee and my doughnut, etc etc. ALL “my” could be replaced with “a” or “the”… once the planet abolishes ownership and uses a commune instead. (USA public library-like supply/survival system).

brs: It is not like that in the real world. It would be great if everybody competed completely freely and honestly as in capitalist theory just like the theory of the communists would be great where everyone works together honestly and goods given according to each persons needs.

Wing: And again, don’t forget those who hate and cannot do… competing. We do cooperating instead.

Good points, brs and all. I just wanted to make sure that… in the great us/them wars… don’t forget about the peacemakers/peacekeepers… who want an end to the us versus them (buyer versus seller) wars. We Christian socialists should get the right to have our “STOP COMPETING NOW!” request… weighed and considered fairly for correctness and wisdom… and thus potentially be THE new national/world direction. We want NON-competing to be allowed to fairly compete in the CHOOSING A NATION’S/WORLD’S PROPER DIRECTION weigh-offs. We are the barnraisers and potluckers. We’re the Stone Soup gang… and we’re coooool. We’re the hippies… and we STILL dislike establishments… and prefer peace and love and communes (sharing). Take care, gang! Wingnut – Age 50 – Anti-capitalism-ist

]]> By: brs http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22407 brs Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:55:58 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22407 Um not -Patrick you fail; you are wrong. As long as there is inherited wealth the playing field is not level. Those without inherited wealth are forced to take what is offered. Those with it use the power of the state to force their will on the rest of us. Those with family connections collude to keep wages down even below the cost of living. Unions are acceptable as long as it the upper class joining together. They use political connections to increase their wealth and produce little. They have their own unions forged in the prep schools and through family ties. They will use the power of the state to break up any similar worker combinations. This was done through murder, military and police action through the 1930's and the courts and legislatures since. The only government interference the upper classes oppose is any limits to their exploitation. Government handouts and support to the upper class and controls on workers or small businesses are perfectly acceptable. No Wall Street banker or speculator produces anything. They are currently bidding up prices of commodities like oil and food while adding no value. They are doing so on margin (borrowed money) while even their up front money is created out of thin air by the federal reserve for their banking cronies. Bubbles in housing, oil, food or stocks do not add value to the economy and only leach off the backs of those who produce. No, the capitalist system is set up to benefit the inherited wealth crony capitalist class. Their is no free competition and will not be as long as wealth is passed to heirs who have not earned it. The theory of free competition and competitive markets is just paper theory and fairy castles spun in air. It is not like that in the real world. It would be great if everybody competed completely freely and honestly as in capitalist theory just like the theory of the communists would be great where everyone works together honestly and goods given according to each persons needs. But neither theoretical -ism has anything to do with reality. Major wealth is given for massive fraud and speculation like Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Enron. In todays world productive people are looked down on while the business school types and hot air salesmen like Donald Trump and Ken Lay are called entrepeneurs and glorified for blowing smoke and stealing. This happened repeatedly before in the late 1800's and again in the 1920's. Repeated booms and busts based on bubble speculation and the massive failure of unergulated free markets in 1929 forced everyone realize some rules had to be spelled out. The invisible hand did not lead to a sustainable balance and would inflate out of control till the bubbles all burst. Regulations were written and balances put in place with the government and unions to control the worst of the excesses. The system was relatively stable and prosperous till the reagan regime took out the brakes and steering and put all effort into hopping up the engine like a bunch of teenage adolescents who did not realize all that power can destroy without careful handling and adequate controls. Um not -Patrick you fail; you are wrong. As long as there is inherited wealth the playing field is not level. Those without inherited wealth are forced to take what is offered. Those with it use the power of the state to force their will on the rest of us. Those with family connections collude to keep wages down even below the cost of living. Unions are acceptable as long as it the upper class joining together. They use political connections to increase their wealth and produce little. They have their own unions forged in the prep schools and through family ties. They will use the power of the state to break up any similar worker combinations. This was done through murder, military and police action through the 1930’s and the courts and legislatures since. The only government interference the upper classes oppose is any limits to their exploitation. Government handouts and support to the upper class and controls on workers or small businesses are perfectly acceptable.

No Wall Street banker or speculator produces anything. They are currently bidding up prices of commodities like oil and food while adding no value. They are doing so on margin (borrowed money) while even their up front money is created out of thin air by the federal reserve for their banking cronies. Bubbles in housing, oil, food or stocks do not add value to the economy and only leach off the backs of those who produce.

No, the capitalist system is set up to benefit the inherited wealth crony capitalist class. Their is no free competition and will not be as long as wealth is passed to heirs who have not earned it. The theory of free competition and competitive markets is just paper theory and fairy castles spun in air. It is not like that in the real world. It would be great if everybody competed completely freely and honestly as in capitalist theory just like the theory of the communists would be great where everyone works together honestly and goods given according to each persons needs. But neither theoretical -ism has anything to do with reality. Major wealth is given for massive fraud and speculation like Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Enron. In todays world productive people are looked down on while the business school types and hot air salesmen like Donald Trump and Ken Lay are called entrepeneurs and glorified for blowing smoke and stealing. This happened repeatedly before in the late 1800’s and again in the 1920’s. Repeated booms and busts based on bubble speculation and the massive failure of unergulated free markets in 1929 forced everyone realize some rules had to be spelled out. The invisible hand did not lead to a sustainable balance and would inflate out of control till the bubbles all burst. Regulations were written and balances put in place with the government and unions to control the worst of the excesses. The system was relatively stable and prosperous till the reagan regime took out the brakes and steering and put all effort into hopping up the engine like a bunch of teenage adolescents who did not realize all that power can destroy without careful handling and adequate controls.

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22384 Don Hawkins Wed, 18 Jun 2008 01:16:26 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22384 And those whose hearts are fixed on Reality itself deserve the title of Philosophers. (Plato, Republic) The object of knowledge is what exists and its function to know about reality. (Plato) We are like people looking for something they have in their hands all the time; we're looking in all directions except at the thing we want, which is probably why we haven't found it.(Plato, 380BC And those whose hearts are fixed on Reality itself deserve the title of Philosophers. (Plato, Republic)
The object of knowledge is what exists and its function to know about reality. (Plato)
We are like people looking for something they have in their hands all the time; we’re looking in all directions except at the thing we want, which is probably why we haven’t found it.(Plato, 380BC

]]> By: Patrick http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22372 Patrick Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:09:35 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22372 "As Doug Page understands them, the following are some of the main dynamics of capitalism: 1. The core dynamic of capitalism is this: A private person with money hires a person without money for the lowest possible wage, in order make as much profit as possible for the person who already has money." Um, not - you fail Doug. Both sides of any commercial transaction try to get the best deal possible, but in doing so make the most mutually acceptable transaction. The person hired *ALSO* tries to "make as much profit as possible" and quits lowpaying employers for better ones. Employees like NBA players and trial lawyers are 'hired' but have plenty of money. And the employers can often hire not the cheapest but the most productive/beneficial. So you got it all wrong. You *really* need to read some Thomas Sowell (eg "Economic Facts and Fallacies"). In failing to understand free markets, you fail to understand everything that you talk about. “As Doug Page understands them, the following are some of the main dynamics of capitalism: 1. The core dynamic of capitalism is this: A private person with money hires a person without money for the lowest possible wage, in order make as much profit as possible for the person who already has money.”

Um, not – you fail Doug. Both sides of any commercial transaction try to get the best deal possible, but in doing so make the most mutually acceptable transaction. The person hired *ALSO* tries to “make as much profit as possible” and quits lowpaying employers for better ones. Employees like NBA players and trial lawyers are ‘hired’ but have plenty of money. And the employers can often hire not the cheapest but the most productive/beneficial.

So you got it all wrong. You *really* need to read some Thomas Sowell (eg “Economic Facts and Fallacies”).

In failing to understand free markets, you fail to understand everything that you talk about.

]]> By: Davis Mirza http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22362 Davis Mirza Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:06:20 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22362 As critics of capitalism, let's all try to be inclusive in our language...Doug's article and the many postings are 'male' driven ("Notice that the employee creates something, but he keeps no part of it. He is alienated from the product and the pleasure and pride of creating it..."), which alienates more than half the population from participating and providing candid 1st person narratives that we can all learn from. (How do women as unpaid workers in the home resist capitalist consumerism? or better yet organize to take power away from a corporate male oligarchy...plenty of success stories are out there and need to be heard) If anti-capitalists are to teach other, this dialogue must avoid the essentialist dogma that has divided humans into male and female prototypes where "economics" & "poli-sci" are bereft of "herstory"...capitalist subjugation is founded on rape culture and patriarchal misogyny that divides many men from their feminist consciousness - all men, including myself (as an artist, teacher and war resister) must overthrow the ruthless economics of capitalist partiarchy by learning to listen and in many instances step aside to let others, previously excluded, light the fires of an anti-capitalist resistance . Observe all the amazing anti-capitalist resistance sub cultures led by those formerly excluded from having a voice... from Porto Alegre peoples movement to vegan animal rights activists; from anti-war artists like the Dixie Chicks to Green Party spokesperson Elizabeth May-our sisters are about opening borders toward building an Earth Community as an alternative to 'corporataucracy'- what David Korten calls "the Great Turning..." {www.yesmagazine.org/greatturning}...anti capitalist war resister Rosa Luxemburg words still ring true: "The abolition of the rule of capital.. is the historical theme of the present revolution. It is a formidable undertaking, and one that will not be accomplished in the blink of an eye just by the issuing of a few decrees from above. Only through the conscious action of the working masses in city and country can it be brought to life, only through the people's highest intellectual maturity and inexhaustible idealism can it be brought safely through all storms and find its way to port." In peace&solidarity Davis Mirza Toronto, CAN. As critics of capitalism, let’s all try to be inclusive in our language…Doug’s article and the many postings are ‘male’ driven (”Notice that the employee creates something, but he keeps no part of it. He is alienated from the product and the pleasure and pride of creating it…”), which alienates more than half the population from participating and providing candid 1st person narratives that we can all learn from. (How do women as unpaid workers in the home resist capitalist consumerism? or better yet organize to take power away from a corporate male oligarchy…plenty of success stories are out there and need to be heard)

If anti-capitalists are to teach other, this dialogue must avoid the essentialist dogma that has divided humans into male and female prototypes where “economics” & “poli-sci” are bereft of “herstory”…capitalist subjugation is founded on rape culture and patriarchal misogyny that divides many men from their feminist consciousness – all men, including myself (as an artist, teacher and war resister) must overthrow the ruthless economics of capitalist partiarchy by learning to listen and in many instances step aside to let others, previously excluded, light the fires of an anti-capitalist resistance .

Observe all the amazing anti-capitalist resistance sub cultures led by those formerly excluded from having a voice… from Porto Alegre peoples movement to vegan animal rights activists; from anti-war artists like the Dixie Chicks to Green Party spokesperson Elizabeth May-our sisters are about opening borders toward building an Earth Community as an alternative to ‘corporataucracy’- what David Korten calls “the Great Turning…” {www.yesmagazine.org/greatturning}…anti capitalist war resister Rosa Luxemburg words still ring true:

“The abolition of the rule of capital.. is the historical theme of the present revolution. It is a formidable undertaking, and one that will not be accomplished in the blink of an eye just by the issuing of a few decrees from above. Only through the conscious action of the working masses in city and country can it be brought to life, only through the people’s highest intellectual maturity and inexhaustible idealism can it be brought safely through all storms and find its way to port.”

In peace&solidarity
Davis Mirza
Toronto, CAN.

]]> By: Wingnut http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22360 Wingnut Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:54:26 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22360 I would NEVER mean that literally. Not a chance. I'm a Christian, for Christ's sake. The only thing I would ever "fire" is a corkgun... so calm down, oh "be offended, be very offended" reactionary one. Yikes! I would NEVER mean that literally. Not a chance. I’m a Christian, for Christ’s sake. The only thing I would ever “fire” is a corkgun… so calm down, oh “be offended, be very offended” reactionary one. Yikes!

]]> By: Edwin Pell http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22357 Edwin Pell Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:42:23 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22357 Moderator how about you removing Wingnut's death threat? Moderator how about you removing Wingnut’s death threat?

]]> By: Wingnut http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22345 Wingnut Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:39:59 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22345 And since I will be the one deciding what "nonproductive" means, I choose Henry to be the first one "cleaned" off-of the planet... as he/she has shown to do nonproductive thinkings and writings. Ready? FIRE! And since I will be the one deciding what “nonproductive” means, I choose Henry to be the first one “cleaned” off-of the planet… as he/she has shown to do nonproductive thinkings and writings. Ready? FIRE!

]]> By: hp http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22338 hp Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:23:01 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22338 The first ones who will have to go are those devils who actually believe CO2 is the staff of life. Those bastards. The first ones who will have to go are those devils who actually believe CO2 is the staff of life.
Those bastards.

]]> By: King Henry VI http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22337 King Henry VI Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:28:29 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22337 What we must do to fix all these horrible problems, as outlined in the feckless commentary of Doug Page, is eliminate the class of nonproductive humans. For the purposes of this comment, the nonproductive humans shall henceforth be referred to as 'excrement machines' (EMs), because excrement and carbon dioxide are the only tangible products thereof. Since Mr. Page believes that Capitalism is failing us, I suggest we turn to our Marxist friends for a solution guaranteed to provide results. Utilizing the Stalinist-model of human purgation, we can simultaneously save the environment and the future of our human race with several clean sweeps of the general population. At first we'll separate and detain the EMs, to observe for any potential latent knowledge of productive character. Once a short period of observation followed by rigorous testing is complete, all EMs will either be terminated or returned to the population as life-long subordinates to the remaining free-producer/creator class. Huge benefits shall be in the making with the termination of every EM. We'll reduce the generation of dangerous carbon dioxide and sewage, thus improving the earth's atmosphere and ecological balance of our watershed. We'll reduce the load on energy demand, and dramatically cut the pulp-paper industry with the elimination of millions of office-fag, aka EM-occupations, most prolific in legal firms and government bureaucracy. Good honest unprocessed wholesome foods will once again dominate the market as the industrial prepackage garbage, consumed by EMs, has no purpose. Producers will again enjoy the fundamental liberty of their money {that being units of exchange for their best efforts}, holding its value, as the economic parasites no longer exist to legislate compulsory alms. Wealth transfers will no longer be falsely identified as "wealth creation". A huge industry, the largest unregulated monopoly the world has ever seen, known commonly as our federal government, will cease to have purpose, once all of its EM sycophants are either reprogrammed or terminated. Understand that we have not had Capitalism in the United States since Stalin's twin, FDR, put his "New Deal" in place. Albert Jay Nock called it dead-on in "Our Enemy The State", published way back in 1935. Considering our present condition in retrospect with Nock's work, it should be of little wonder how the hideous misallocation of resources has culminated in a nation overpopulated by EMs. It should be little wonder that no one in this nation actually knows what true Capitalism is, since it was effectively eliminated by the New Deal and its countless permutations thereafter. Everyone that had an honest working knowledge, through actual experience, not mere theoretical study of true capitalism, is dead! For those of you who need to figure out whether you're an EM or producer, there is a fairly simple test. Given that if you aren't making it, growing it, digging it from the earth or moving it, you're probably not creating any wealth. Thus if your income is based on the transfer of wealth from producers/creators or it comes as a result of creative manipulations of compound interest formulas, you're probably an EM. Most notable EMs are career politicians, lawyers, all financial related occupations, life-long government bureaucrats, high ranking union officials and the purveyors of theological fairytales. Mr. Page is the consummate poster-child of the kind of man whom awakens to his life-long-EM status, then subsequently turns to denigrate the very system he used to fill his pockets. As a card carrying, dues paying, union man, I know the likes of Mr. Page and the parade of lawyers who've made a living "sticking up for the working man". I along with my union brothers now wax fatalistic, knowing the very guys who proclaim to have a vested interest in our welfare, yuck it up on lecherous cruses in the Caribbean, with the very same people whom they denigrate with tired fire and brimstone rhetoric. Pro-labor rhetoric, tacitly approved by the elitist for the cause of the elitist, passed on by wannabe low-level union-bootlickers, hopelessly deluded by circumlocutory rhetoric authored by our parade of EM-legal-representatives. Case in point being Mr. Page, who is as much the elitist as the very people he scapegoats for all our problems. He talks a good game, but a safe bet holds that he'll never risk everything he has accumulated for the sake of what he preaches; "It is clear that we cannot successfully or morally use force against the armed juggernaut of the elite, and against those among us who are successfully brainwashed by the elite." Oh really? By whose standard of morality do you make such an assertion? Apparently those silly American 'elitist' whom rebelled against the English throne, honestly risking everything they had, didn't observe the same moral standards you're obviously brainwashed into holding. Mr. Page. By what moral standard do you expect a man to abide, if after working an honest wealth-creation activity his entire life, he loses everything through the artful machinations of government sponsored compulsory wealth redistribution? How tight do you think the spring of discomfort shall wind before it snaps? Please, Mr. Page, put the business end of a pistol in your mouth and get on with cleaning up this world, or else show your mettle and make a big nasty splash. Not here, but where everyone can see and never forget. Please no more want or suggestion of wealth redistribution. We can all take care when the time comes, because no socioeconomic position has ever rendered a human with bullet-proof flesh. Henry the VI What we must do to fix all these horrible problems, as outlined in the feckless commentary of Doug Page, is eliminate the class of nonproductive humans. For the purposes of this comment, the nonproductive humans shall henceforth be referred to as ‘excrement machines’ (EMs), because excrement and carbon dioxide are the only tangible products thereof.

Since Mr. Page believes that Capitalism is failing us, I suggest we turn to our Marxist friends for a solution guaranteed to provide results. Utilizing the Stalinist-model of human purgation, we can simultaneously save the environment and the future of our human race with several clean sweeps of the general population. At first we’ll separate and detain the EMs, to observe for any potential latent knowledge of productive character. Once a short period of observation followed by rigorous testing is complete, all EMs will either be terminated or returned to the population as life-long subordinates to the remaining free-producer/creator class.

Huge benefits shall be in the making with the termination of every EM. We’ll reduce the generation of dangerous carbon dioxide and sewage, thus improving the earth’s atmosphere and ecological balance of our watershed. We’ll reduce the load on energy demand, and dramatically cut the pulp-paper industry with the elimination of millions of office-fag, aka EM-occupations, most prolific in legal firms and government bureaucracy. Good honest unprocessed wholesome foods will once again dominate the market as the industrial prepackage garbage, consumed by EMs, has no purpose. Producers will again enjoy the fundamental liberty of their money {that being units of exchange for their best efforts}, holding its value, as the economic parasites no longer exist to legislate compulsory alms. Wealth transfers will no longer be falsely identified as “wealth creation”. A huge industry, the largest unregulated monopoly the world has ever seen, known commonly as our federal government, will cease to have purpose, once all of its EM sycophants are either reprogrammed or terminated.

Understand that we have not had Capitalism in the United States since Stalin’s twin, FDR, put his “New Deal” in place. Albert Jay Nock called it dead-on in “Our Enemy The State”, published way back in 1935. Considering our present condition in retrospect with Nock’s work, it should be of little wonder how the hideous misallocation of resources has culminated in a nation overpopulated by EMs. It should be little wonder that no one in this nation actually knows what true Capitalism is, since it was effectively eliminated by the New Deal and its countless permutations thereafter. Everyone that had an honest working knowledge, through actual experience, not mere theoretical study of true capitalism, is dead!

For those of you who need to figure out whether you’re an EM or producer, there is a fairly simple test. Given that if you aren’t making it, growing it, digging it from the earth or moving it, you’re probably not creating any wealth. Thus if your income is based on the transfer of wealth from producers/creators or it comes as a result of creative manipulations of compound interest formulas, you’re probably an EM. Most notable EMs are career politicians, lawyers, all financial related occupations, life-long government bureaucrats, high ranking union officials and the purveyors of theological fairytales.

Mr. Page is the consummate poster-child of the kind of man whom awakens to his life-long-EM status, then subsequently turns to denigrate the very system he used to fill his pockets. As a card carrying, dues paying, union man, I know the likes of Mr. Page and the parade of lawyers who’ve made a living “sticking up for the working man”. I along with my union brothers now wax fatalistic, knowing the very guys who proclaim to have a vested interest in our welfare, yuck it up on lecherous cruses in the Caribbean, with the very same people whom they denigrate with tired fire and brimstone rhetoric. Pro-labor rhetoric, tacitly approved by the elitist for the cause of the elitist, passed on by wannabe low-level union-bootlickers, hopelessly deluded by circumlocutory rhetoric authored by our parade of EM-legal-representatives. Case in point being Mr. Page, who is as much the elitist as the very people he scapegoats for all our problems. He talks a good game, but a safe bet holds that he’ll never risk everything he has accumulated for the sake of what he preaches;

“It is clear that we cannot successfully or morally use force against the armed juggernaut of the elite, and against those among us who are successfully brainwashed by the elite.”

Oh really? By whose standard of morality do you make such an assertion?
Apparently those silly American ‘elitist’ whom rebelled against the English throne, honestly risking everything they had, didn’t observe the same moral standards you’re obviously brainwashed into holding. Mr. Page.
By what moral standard do you expect a man to abide, if after working an honest wealth-creation activity his entire life, he loses everything through the artful machinations of government sponsored compulsory wealth redistribution?

How tight do you think the spring of discomfort shall wind before it snaps?

Please, Mr. Page, put the business end of a pistol in your mouth and get on with cleaning up this world, or else show your mettle and make a big nasty splash. Not here, but where everyone can see and never forget.

Please no more want or suggestion of wealth redistribution. We can all take care when the time comes, because no socioeconomic position has ever rendered a human with bullet-proof flesh.

Henry the VI

]]> By: Max Shields http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22332 Max Shields Tue, 17 Jun 2008 02:02:45 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22332 Gary, With all due respect, just think if you took the time it took you to piece together what didn't work and came up with something workable!! Maybe you're efforts could be useful. A shame you didn't get the uneconomic growth thing...in a few years maybe. Max (: Gary,
With all due respect, just think if you took the time it took you to piece together what didn’t work and came up with something workable!!

Maybe you’re efforts could be useful. A shame you didn’t get the uneconomic growth thing…in a few years maybe.

Max (:

]]> By: Wingnut http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22331 Wingnut Tue, 17 Jun 2008 01:53:30 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22331 I think its time for a little song about all the isolationism seen happening out and about. First, let me tell us all the story of the once-happy farm called Earth. Thrice upon a "time" (which there is no such thing-as, right Don H?)... there was a farm the size of a planet. ALL the children on the farm... started-out living in the central farmhouse, and all were obtaining their wellbeing, equally, from the central wellbeing repository... or as some children called it... "The Big Bowl". But then SOMETHING happened, and the children started building blanket'n'yardstick tents within separate(d) areas of the farmhouse, and started segregating from each other. They started little nations unto themselves, and blanket-blindered themselves from others who were (initially) on the same team... within the farmhouse. It even got worse! Almost all the children started grabbing-up supplies (ownershipism) from the communal farmhouse "big bowl", and running out into the pastures... and building tents out there... surrounded by fences, borders, security systems, locks, and hiding themselves within trees. (strategically positioning themselves in a future-looking, profit-optimized paradigm). The children started taking more and more supplies from the communal farmhouse, and spending little time "communioning" there anymore, and thus began the great US versus THEM wars... where nobody was happy anymore, and everyone viewed each other as "bad apples" (profiteers) out-to steal their supplies and greenstamp (money) hoard-up! "Every tent unto themselves... this is WAR!" Ok, so here's a piece of parody from "Happy Together" Imagine us and them, and them and us No matter how you gouge the hide... and bitch and cuss The only one for me is me, and me for me Unhappy degathered Chorus: I can't see me lovin' nobody but me... for all my life When I'm with me... baby the skies will be gray... for all my life. Am I getting weird? I propose that The Great Pyramids... were made by an ALL-VOLUNTEER "communism" of people, and not a servitudism or dominate/subordinate situation. I believe they were built by socialism folks... all equal, and all building voluntarily. I was also thinking about the 3? ways to utilize a horse for assistance in the removal of a stump. First, there's the force way... spurs. That's a given. Then there's the conned-in, or lured-in, or "fooled" way, and thats the carrot-string-stick method. Then there's the third way... and that is to learn to talk to the horse, and convince it that it'd be a good idea and helpful to itself and man... to help remove the stump. (NOT use force or fooling.) I'm a fisherman, so I know about the carrot-string-stick method of fooling animals into "circus performing" using a Rapala. (a special fake carrot used on fish). I mentioned such "conduction" earlier... animals "hoop-jumping" for arti-fish-all trinkets like the Rapala... fooling the fish into thinking they're getting "something to show for it".. That same method... is used to get capitalists to buy-into the pyramid scheme called capitalism. Trinkets of foolery are dangled from the tall skyskrapers in the cities, and gullibles are fished-in.... thinking they're getting nourished. Its a rationing thing... a dolphin show... a conduction... the capitalism "movement". Did I use enough elipses? I think its time for a little song about all the isolationism seen happening out and about. First, let me tell us all the story of the once-happy farm called Earth.

Thrice upon a “time” (which there is no such thing-as, right Don H?)… there was a farm the size of a planet. ALL the children on the farm… started-out living in the central farmhouse, and all were obtaining their wellbeing, equally, from the central wellbeing repository… or as some children called it… “The Big Bowl”. But then SOMETHING happened, and the children started building blanket’n'yardstick tents within separate(d) areas of the farmhouse, and started segregating from each other. They started little nations unto themselves, and blanket-blindered themselves from others who were (initially) on the same team… within the farmhouse. It even got worse! Almost all the children started grabbing-up supplies (ownershipism) from the communal farmhouse “big bowl”, and running out into the pastures… and building tents out there… surrounded by fences, borders, security systems, locks, and hiding themselves within trees. (strategically positioning themselves in a future-looking, profit-optimized paradigm).

The children started taking more and more supplies from the communal farmhouse, and spending little time “communioning” there anymore, and thus began the great US versus THEM wars… where nobody was happy anymore, and everyone viewed each other as “bad apples” (profiteers) out-to steal their supplies and greenstamp (money) hoard-up!

“Every tent unto themselves… this is WAR!”

Ok, so here’s a piece of parody from “Happy Together”

Imagine us and them, and them and us
No matter how you gouge the hide… and bitch and cuss
The only one for me is me, and me for me
Unhappy degathered

Chorus:
I can’t see me lovin’ nobody but me… for all my life
When I’m with me… baby the skies will be gray… for all my life.

Am I getting weird? I propose that The Great Pyramids… were made by an ALL-VOLUNTEER “communism” of people, and not a servitudism or dominate/subordinate situation. I believe they were built by socialism folks… all equal, and all building voluntarily.

I was also thinking about the 3? ways to utilize a horse for assistance in the removal of a stump. First, there’s the force way… spurs. That’s a given. Then there’s the conned-in, or lured-in, or “fooled” way, and thats the carrot-string-stick method. Then there’s the third way… and that is to learn to talk to the horse, and convince it that it’d be a good idea and helpful to itself and man… to help remove the stump. (NOT use force or fooling.)

I’m a fisherman, so I know about the carrot-string-stick method of fooling animals into “circus performing” using a Rapala. (a special fake carrot used on fish). I mentioned such “conduction” earlier… animals “hoop-jumping” for arti-fish-all trinkets like the Rapala… fooling the fish into thinking they’re getting “something to show for it”.. That same method… is used to get capitalists to buy-into the pyramid scheme called capitalism. Trinkets of foolery are dangled from the tall skyskrapers in the cities, and gullibles are fished-in…. thinking they’re getting nourished. Its a rationing thing… a dolphin show… a conduction… the capitalism “movement”.

Did I use enough elipses?

]]> By: PennyTeem http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22329 PennyTeem Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:55:55 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22329 The world is going to hell in a handbasket. We those of us who are NOT the movers & shakers spend our time arguing with each other about who caused the problem & what needs to be done. Well, I can grow my own food, make my own clothes & care for myself. Can you??? The time for arguing is almost over. Either get in the boat and ROW or sink with the ship. The world is going to hell in a handbasket. We those of us who are NOT the movers & shakers spend our time arguing with each other about who caused the problem & what needs to be done.

Well, I can grow my own food, make my own clothes & care for myself. Can you???

The time for arguing is almost over. Either get in the boat and ROW or sink with the ship.

]]> By: Giorgio http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22328 Giorgio Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:47:01 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22328 After reading this article I felt it could be a PR endorsement of Ron Paul's campaign and a call to support his REVOLUTION. I'm quoting below parts of the article to prove my point: (1) ''The elite causes the government to print massive amounts of paper money to rescue the institutions of the elite.' This is a point Ron Paul has often drawn the attention of American people. It devalues the dollar, increases inflation and makes the people poorer. (2) "It seems abundantly clear that the wealthy powerful elite served so well by Federal Reserve Chairman Bernacke is far more concerned with maintaining the stability of its banking institutions than with inflation." Ron Paul has often stated that the Fed has no reason to exist and that as president he would close it down. It's a private institution run by faceless goons that even he, a US Congressman, does not knows who they are. In fact, it could be run by the Mafia and nobody would know. (3) "Unfortunately, the existing power elite are not likely to sit passively by and to allow this to happen. It is far more probable that they will choose a military dictator favorable to their interests and to impose martial law." Ron Paul is fully aware of this possibility, hence his grassroots campaign to stave this off and wake-up call! Hence his anti-Patriot Act, anti-ID card and his stance against curtailment of civil liberties. (4) "The elite through their ownership and control of the media are well aware of and make full use the manipulative power of Nationalism, of Patriotism, and of the “dogs of war.” The elites through their controlled media have barred Ron Paul from attending debates, called him a "wacko", isolationist, unpatriotic, and an appeaser because he advocates talking to the Arabs and NOT nuking them preemptively without even a declaration of war. They are fully aware that if his movement gathers the momentum of a tsunami, it will scare the shits out of them. But they will be happy to put up him as long as he remains a voice in the wilderness. (5) "Both capitalism and a government of, by, and for the people no longer exist." Lobbyists and corporations are now the government, hence Ron Paul's call to downsize it. (6) "The capitalism of Adam Smith, relatively free of government support, is no more. Monopoly Capitalism and the government are now one." Not only that, but also the Judiciary works in collusion with the above two and IS no longer independent, so says Ron Paul.. (7) "If a Great Depression really threatens the elite, it is probable that the elite would turn to a popular general like General Petraeus as military dictator and impose martial law. The elite would engage our “support” of this dictator by “false flag” operations, and by a media PR campaign, ,manipulating our own fear, and playing on our national honor, nationalism, consumerism, racism, religious differences, patriotism, “evil enemies at home and abroad,” and “the dogs of war.” This being the case, what shall we do? What can we do?" Well, if you don't know by now what to do, GOD HELP YOU! Someone has said "People and Nations deserve the government they have." If Americans end by getting the jackboot rammed down their necks, then they got their just deserves! It's this simple. After reading this article I felt it could be a PR endorsement of Ron Paul’s campaign and a call to support his REVOLUTION.

I’m quoting below parts of the article to prove my point:

(1) ”The elite causes the government to print massive amounts of paper money to rescue the institutions of the elite.’

This is a point Ron Paul has often drawn the attention of American people. It devalues the dollar, increases inflation and makes the people poorer.

(2) “It seems abundantly clear that the wealthy powerful elite served so well by Federal Reserve Chairman Bernacke is far more concerned with maintaining the stability of its banking institutions than with inflation.”

Ron Paul has often stated that the Fed has no reason to exist and that as president he would close it down. It’s a private institution run by faceless goons that even he, a US Congressman, does not knows who they are. In fact, it could be run by the Mafia and nobody would know.

(3) “Unfortunately, the existing power elite are not likely to sit passively by and to allow this to happen. It is far more probable that they will choose a military dictator favorable to their interests and to impose martial law.”

Ron Paul is fully aware of this possibility, hence his grassroots campaign to stave this off and wake-up call! Hence his anti-Patriot Act, anti-ID card and his stance against curtailment of civil liberties.

(4) “The elite through their ownership and control of the media are well aware of and make full use the manipulative power of Nationalism, of Patriotism, and of the “dogs of war.”

The elites through their controlled media have barred Ron Paul from attending debates, called him a “wacko”, isolationist, unpatriotic, and an appeaser because he advocates talking to the Arabs and NOT nuking them preemptively without even a declaration of war.
They are fully aware that if his movement gathers the momentum of a tsunami, it will scare the shits out of them. But they will be happy to put up him as long as he remains a voice in the wilderness.

(5) “Both capitalism and a government of, by, and for the people no longer exist.”

Lobbyists and corporations are now the government, hence Ron Paul’s call to downsize it.

(6) “The capitalism of Adam Smith, relatively free of government support, is no more. Monopoly Capitalism and the government are now one.”

Not only that, but also the Judiciary works in collusion with the above two and IS no longer independent, so says Ron Paul..

(7) “If a Great Depression really threatens the elite, it is probable that the elite would turn to a popular general like General Petraeus as military dictator and impose martial law. The elite would engage our “support” of this dictator by “false flag” operations, and by a media PR campaign, ,manipulating our own fear, and playing on our national honor, nationalism, consumerism, racism, religious differences, patriotism, “evil enemies at home and abroad,” and “the dogs of war.”

This being the case, what shall we do? What can we do?”

Well, if you don’t know by now what to do, GOD HELP YOU!

Someone has said “People and Nations deserve the government they have.” If Americans end by getting the jackboot rammed down their necks, then they got their just deserves!
It’s this simple.

]]> By: mpgingdl http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22316 mpgingdl Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:21:28 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22316 By 1985, Communism (itself just a grotesque mutation of capitalism) had reached the point where its unsustainibility was plainly obvious, but the system was already past its point of no return. Capitalism is at that point today. If you think it can be saved, you might as well be standing on the deck of the Titanic with a bucket. By 1985, Communism (itself just a grotesque mutation of capitalism) had reached the point where its unsustainibility was plainly obvious, but the system was already past its point of no return. Capitalism is at that point today. If you think it can be saved, you might as well be standing on the deck of the Titanic with a bucket.

]]> By: Gary http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22313 Gary Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:53:33 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22313 Max, I would like to start off by saying that I respect anyone who has good intentions - intentions of improving the well being of people. With no ill will, I remind all who are reading of the old saying: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." The law of unintended consequences takes over whenever governments interfere with freedom. For every problem solved by government, at least two more problems are likely created. (Empirical support: Our nation founded upon limited government is now the largest government in the world.) For example (good intentions/law of unintended consequences), was it not Herman Daly who proposed tradable child bearing permits? Sounds a little like communist China's one child policy. Perhaps Daly thought his intention was good; I think that it is frightening. What about all the infant girls who are killed so the parents can have their one and only son? At any rate, the government making child bearing a tradable commodity is not my cup of tea. Environmental pollution is a matter of property rights. At one time it was handled in the courts through the common-law. This was prior to corporate interests utilizing government to benefit themselves (Also known as regulatory capture). How does one quantify the qualitative data of Manfred Max-Neef's poverty index? Do we measure utility in utiles? Does anyone have a utilimeter handy? Who will come up with these data? Governments? The same governments controlled by corporate interests? -Marxian economics is self-contradictory: How can profits across all industries tend towards a uniform rate if the quantity of labor varies between industries. Marx himself could never riddle away this paradox between rates of profits and the labor theory of value. -Adam Smith was another economist who advanced the faulty "labor theory of value." Smith, however, saw that markets work and so does free trade. Henry George also was a firm believer in free trade and not a believer in protectionist policies. PRIOR to Adam Smith, economic theories were of the Mercantilism tradition. TODAY'S STATE SPONSORED CAPITALISM IS A THROWBACK TO THE MERCANTILIST YEARS 1500 - 1750. (Smith wrote Wealth of Nations in 1776) -Thomas Malthus made the mistake of not foreseeing the Industrial Revolution. Never underestimate the ingenuity of men whose creative minds are free to benefit society in the context of the free market. -Carl Menger, of the Austrian School of economics, (along with Walras and Jevons) discovered that VALUE is determined by marginal utility. -Eugen von Bohm-Bawerk, another Austrian economist, showed that the interest rate is governed by time-preference. He also demonstrated that capitalism does not exploit workers. http://mises.org/story/1680 -Ludwig von Mises, another Austrian, showed that the business cycle is not an inherent flaw of capitalism but, rather, is caused by credit expansion of bank credit with both government sanctioned fractional reserve banking, and central bank interest rate manipulation. Mises also wrote a book "The Anti-Capitalist Mentality" in which he says that SAVING (the postponement of consumption) by indigenous populations and free markets are the only way to lift the third world out of poverty. Again, without markets for capital goods, SOCIALISM CANNOT WORK. http://mises.org/econcalc.asp -Murray Rothbard applied the Austrian Business Cycle Theory to a historical examination of the Great Depression and provides clear evidence that the Federal Reserve (created 1913) that expanded credit throughout the 1920's leading to the boom phase of the business cycle (Roaring 20's) which was followed by the subsequent bust (1929 market collapse, 1933 bottom) The Great Depression. Fractional Reserve banking is fraud and the Federal Reserve is tantamount to a legalized counterfeiter. (By the way the falling dollar and the inflationary bubbles in the economy that credit expansion produce are MAJOR factors in the price of energy.) -Hans Herman Hoppe wrote a book "Democracy: The God that Failed" in which he details how democracy has led to ever increasing property rights violations. This, in turn, has led towards a higher rate of TIME PREFERENCE in the 20th century. (and lots of wars too) The economists of the Austrian School have shown again and again that the system of private ownership utilizing a system of voluntary trade between consenting persons and saving (rather than immediate consumption) is the only way of raising the welfare of society. Utility cannot be measured in units, but it can be demonstrated - the principle of "demonstrated preference." In the free market, all exchanges are voluntary and therefore both parties expect to benefit. The free market is therefore Pareto efficient. Government, on the other hand, is the monopoly of the use of force. Whenever it acts, some persons are benefited while others are harmed. Acts of government, therefore, cannot meet the Pareto criteria. "Given the fact that coercion is used for taxes, therefore, and since all government actions rest on its taxing power, we deduce that: no act of government whatever can increase social utility." - M. Rothbard "Toward a Reconstruction of Utility and Welfare Economics" Lastly, growth can and will continue. Populations can grow too. The PRICE MECHANISM is how the free market economy allocates society's scarce resources to their most productive ends. Prices also communicate knowledge between entrepreneurs. Profit is good. Profits in any industry that are above a normal rate of profits will encourage further producers to enter into this industry. (No windfall profits tax please) The increase in supply will cause profits to gradually tend back towards the normal, uniform rate of profit. Consumers benefit. Ignorance is only invincible if people let it be, unfortunately, too many people believe only what they want to believe rather than putting forth the effort necessary to move closer to the truth. Max,
I would like to start off by saying that I respect anyone who has good intentions – intentions of improving the well being of people. With no ill
will, I remind all who are reading of the old saying: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” The law of unintended consequences takes over whenever governments interfere with freedom. For every problem solved by government, at least two more problems are likely created. (Empirical support: Our nation founded upon limited government is now the largest government in the world.)
For example (good intentions/law of unintended consequences), was it not Herman Daly who proposed tradable child bearing permits? Sounds a little like communist China’s one child policy. Perhaps Daly thought his intention was good; I think that it is frightening. What about all the infant girls who are killed so the parents can have their one and only son? At any rate, the government making child bearing a tradable commodity is not my cup of tea.
Environmental pollution is a matter of property rights. At one time it was handled in the courts through the common-law. This was prior to corporate interests utilizing government to benefit themselves (Also known as regulatory capture).
How does one quantify the qualitative data of Manfred Max-Neef’s poverty index? Do we measure utility in utiles? Does anyone have a utilimeter handy? Who will come up with these data? Governments? The same governments controlled by corporate interests?

-Marxian economics is self-contradictory: How can profits across all industries tend towards a uniform rate if the quantity of labor varies between industries. Marx himself could never riddle away this paradox between rates of profits and the labor theory of value.

-Adam Smith was another economist who advanced the faulty “labor theory of value.” Smith, however, saw that markets work and so does free trade. Henry George also was a firm believer in free trade and not a believer in protectionist policies.
PRIOR to Adam Smith, economic theories were of the Mercantilism tradition. TODAY’S STATE SPONSORED CAPITALISM IS A THROWBACK TO THE MERCANTILIST YEARS 1500 – 1750. (Smith wrote Wealth of Nations in 1776)

-Thomas Malthus made the mistake of not foreseeing the Industrial Revolution. Never underestimate the ingenuity of men whose creative minds are free to benefit society in the context of the free market.

-Carl Menger, of the Austrian School of economics, (along with Walras and Jevons) discovered that VALUE is determined by marginal utility.

-Eugen von Bohm-Bawerk, another Austrian economist, showed that the interest rate is governed by time-preference. He also demonstrated that capitalism does not exploit workers. http://mises.org/story/1680

-Ludwig von Mises, another Austrian, showed that the business cycle is not an inherent flaw of capitalism but, rather, is caused by credit expansion of bank credit with both government sanctioned fractional reserve banking, and central bank interest rate manipulation. Mises also wrote a book “The Anti-Capitalist Mentality” in which he says that SAVING (the postponement of consumption) by indigenous populations and free markets are the only way to lift the third world out of poverty. Again, without markets for capital goods, SOCIALISM CANNOT WORK. http://mises.org/econcalc.asp

-Murray Rothbard applied the Austrian Business Cycle Theory to a historical examination of the Great Depression and provides clear evidence that the Federal Reserve (created 1913) that expanded credit throughout the 1920’s leading to the boom phase of the business cycle (Roaring 20’s) which was followed by the subsequent bust (1929 market collapse, 1933 bottom) The Great Depression. Fractional Reserve banking is fraud and the Federal Reserve is tantamount to a legalized counterfeiter. (By the way the falling dollar and the inflationary bubbles in the economy that credit expansion produce are MAJOR factors in the price of energy.)

-Hans Herman Hoppe wrote a book “Democracy: The God that Failed” in which he details how democracy has led to ever increasing property rights violations. This, in turn, has led towards a higher rate of TIME PREFERENCE in the 20th century. (and lots of wars too)

The economists of the Austrian School have shown again and again that the system of private ownership utilizing a system of voluntary trade between consenting persons and saving (rather than immediate consumption) is the only way of raising the welfare of society.

Utility cannot be measured in units, but it can be demonstrated – the principle of “demonstrated preference.” In the free market, all exchanges are voluntary and therefore both parties expect to benefit. The free market is therefore Pareto efficient. Government, on the other hand, is the monopoly of the use of force. Whenever it acts, some persons are benefited while others are harmed. Acts of government, therefore, cannot meet the Pareto criteria.

“Given the fact that coercion is used for taxes, therefore, and since all government actions rest on its taxing power, we deduce that: no act of government whatever can increase social
utility.” – M. Rothbard “Toward a Reconstruction of Utility and Welfare Economics”

Lastly, growth can and will continue. Populations can grow too. The PRICE MECHANISM is how the free market economy allocates society’s scarce resources to their most productive ends. Prices also communicate knowledge between entrepreneurs. Profit is good. Profits in any industry that are above a normal rate of profits will encourage further producers to enter into this industry. (No windfall profits tax please) The increase in supply will cause profits to gradually tend back towards the normal, uniform rate of profit. Consumers benefit.

Ignorance is only invincible if people let it be, unfortunately, too many people believe only what they want to believe rather than putting forth the effort necessary to move closer to the truth.

]]> By: brs http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/06/why-is-capitalism-failing-us/#comment-22311 brs Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:34:34 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=2161#comment-22311 Capitalism is the problem because the so called capitalists are assumed to have a higher value than other human beings. Take away all the perfectionist theoretical von Mises nonsense, or Adam Smith for that matter, because it is just theory and not how it is actually applied. As it is applied, capitalism is just fairly transparent theoretical cover to justify the imposition of the inherited aristocratic class system of Europe. Few of today's capitalists have made their fortunes by producing anything at all let alone anything of value to humankind. Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Cyrus McCormack were a century or more ago. The majority of todays capitalists inherited their money. They did not earn it!! Most are involved in finance schemes, not productive activity. The poor lady with a micro loan is not a capitalist or in the capitalist class. She will never reach that wealthy position and neither will her children despite the happily ever after fairy tales. The psychopathic capitalists will exploit her and cheat her. They do not believe in freedom. Look at the governments they support. These capitalist supported governments are not free. The capitalists will use any means at their disposal to keep others from getting anything despite what von Mises fairy tale may tell you. Any means includes armed thugs, fraud, bribery and theft. Any means includes corruption of the justice system to steal land and imprison those who fight back. If anyone truly believed in free competition they would support a system where people rise on their own merit rather than their parents. Where would Bush be today without rich daddy. Probably in a gutter, prison or halfway house. If you want freedom and free competition eliminate all aristocracy and inherited social class. Eliminate the inheritance of wealth and gifts that put the capitalists spawn on a higher plane. Let everyone make it on their own ability rather than mummy or daddy. Till you do this then the fact of a government trying to maintain a balance between social classes is a reality and a necessity. And maintaining that balance to prevent the inherited rich from economically destroying those of us who are left living by our own efforts is as necessary as preventing the physically powerful or armed thugs from destroying those who are less strong or unarmed. The rich depend on that aspect of government every day while whining about government intervention. Capitalism is the problem because the so called capitalists are assumed to have a higher value than other human beings. Take away all the perfectionist theoretical von Mises nonsense, or Adam Smith for that matter, because it is just theory and not how it is actually applied. As it is applied, capitalism is just fairly transparent theoretical cover to justify the imposition of the inherited aristocratic class system of Europe. Few of today’s capitalists have made their fortunes by producing anything at all let alone anything of value to humankind. Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Cyrus McCormack were a century or more ago. The majority of todays capitalists inherited their money. They did not earn it!! Most are involved in finance schemes, not productive activity. The poor lady with a micro loan is not a capitalist or in the capitalist class. She will never reach that wealthy position and neither will her children despite the happily ever after fairy tales. The psychopathic capitalists will exploit her and cheat her. They do not believe in freedom. Look at the governments they support. These capitalist supported governments are not free. The capitalists will use any means at their disposal to keep others from getting anything despite what von Mises fairy tale may tell you. Any means includes armed thugs, fraud, bribery and theft. Any means includes corruption of the justice system to steal land and imprison those who fight back. If anyone truly believed in free competition they would support a system where people rise on their own merit rather than their parents. Where would Bush be today without rich daddy. Probably in a gutter, prison or halfway house. If you want freedom and free competition eliminate all aristocracy and inherited social class. Eliminate the inheritance of wealth and gifts that put the capitalists spawn on a higher plane. Let everyone make it on their own ability rather than mummy or daddy. Till you do this then the fact of a government trying to maintain a balance between social classes is a reality and a necessity. And maintaining that balance to prevent the inherited rich from economically destroying those of us who are left living by our own efforts is as necessary as preventing the physically powerful or armed thugs from destroying those who are less strong or unarmed. The rich depend on that aspect of government every day while whining about government intervention.

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