The point I am making is that you should not believe the only possible good in the universe can come from large numbers of humans.

And Evie. Thanks for your fire and persistent clarity. I’m one of those persons Ron Jacobs recently described Emma Goldman as, here at DV — “a communist, not a Stalinist.” The ruling class’s power does derive from their small numbers, which had never occurred to me before. But not, I think, primarily from their small numbers.

Speaking as someone with absolutely no desire to have children myself, I must say this analogy is quite silly, Erik. It’s not an argument over whether we are “better” than a bear, lion or whatever animal (though I often think many animals make for better company than most people I encounter). As for the question of what makes us humans special: how about great literature and art, philosophy, incredible music, stunning scientific achievements, self-awareness (including unfathomable heights of love), and some pretty amazing cuisine beyond what you can pick off a tree. All these things and more make life worth living . . . and hold the desire that all people and future generations will enjoy the blessings of existence as well.

It’s not all bleak . . .

I feel it just the opposite. Encouraging the poor and oppressed to produce large numbers of children keep the masses weak, unable to unite or agree and often fighting one another for scraps. The capitalists love it – gives them more than enough expendable capital.

The “ruling class” has power precisely b/c they’re are so few of them. Were there a billion ruling elite they would never accomplish anything due to discord, disagreement – sort of like the masses do.

So, I don’t think it will be the end of the world if the rich brats of antilife begin to or continue to cherry-pick their offspring. Their petty attempts to play God will fail, guided as they will be by their own lack of wisdom, which they enthrone exactly because of their inherent sickness.

If evil self-destructs some people and their offspring, the rest of us may survive, in some form or other–if not, something probably will. Life evolves and changes beyond our control, and the mad path to the void will be contested until the end, if there is an end.

The sick have always been selectively breeding, and they have always been killing off the children of the poor. That is what antilife drives them to do.

But back to the subject. Loathing people who reproduce without economic means is rancid behavior. Reproduction is a human right on par with survival. You do the capitalists’ dirty work for them if you discourage the poor and oppressed from breeding simply because of their condition.

For the last 3 years we have ran a Sunday “soup kitchen” out of our pocket. It began when we had hungry people coming to the backdoor of our restaurant asking for leftovers, and grew b/c we are fortunate enough to have the funds. In recent months others have stepped up to help who have the means and heart and the “kitchen” grows. And we don’t depend on Big Daddy government funding – but on one another.

But this is a LONG way from Rosenthal’s and Annie’s concerns. I posted the quotation from Weiner’s book as a point of information about the state of genetic manipulation available to the wealthy A DECADE AGO.

I don’t see selective breeding going as far as the ruling class might wish. It’s been tried before and the offspring were neither smarter, wiser, or superior – just whiter. I do see them cloning themselves for body parts to live indefinitely.

Had George HW and Babs been able to select their smartest genetic embryos – they would still have produced an idiot bunch.

1) Yes, evie, you bluster. :P However, I would not necessarily call you a non-conformist.

2) If things become as Lloyd mentions–and in some ways, they already are–the mental sickness of those who would commodify their offspring will lead to either perpetuation of the sickness and a destructive spiral, or the genuine production of superior offspring, who then will see the flaws of their forebears. Either way, it is not a sustainable absolute, any more than other absolutes. Life will find a way; life has already found a way.