Although Jews have more than enough influence on social mores in the USA – through Hollywood and the rightwing Christian nuts, etc. I believe the real folks behind the oil grab are sitting royally in Belgium, Netherlands, and profess to be “Christian.” The US is just the “muscle” man for globalists – the “brains” are in Europe.

“Perhaps you could explain what was “unfounded” about Ms McKinney’s remarks. Do you have proof? Or are you just defaming her?”

According to Kucinich, “The incident did not happen.”

Four years ago I supported the idea of trying to get the troops to stand-down – not “murdering Iraqi for no reason.”

Also, Kucinich is as big a phony as any Democrat, including the “former” Democrat McKinney. McKinney was pandering to the “Jews behind it” crowd, or AIPAC in control yadayadayada.

The charlatans are those who think a Nader or Cindy or Ron Paul will do anything any different if they had a snowball chance of getting into the WH. Charlatans are those folks who think bloggers and petitions and phoning their congress critter will make a difference.

Charlatans are those who are filling up their gas tanks to go to Walmart and buy plastic junk and then whine whine whine about a war that is not directly effecting them but they think regurgitating progressive slogans makes them special.

The charlatans are those who haven’t a clue or an idea of how to extricate the US from it’s own shitpile but think blabbering “end the war now” is a sufficient method to solving all the problems of the USA.

Most of the sheep bleating anti-war today were supporting murdering Wars in 2002 and 2003 b/c they thought the US would kick ass and come home in a weekend. Joe Blowhard is no more humanitarian today than he was then – he’s just pissed b/c gas is $3.25 a gallon.

What a charade. Evie the “progressive” who “4 years ago supported” the murder of Iraqis for no reason. What changed in 4 years? Hmmmm.

Murdering Iraqis to steal their oil and install a puppet regime and offer opportunities for Bush-Cheney cronies to bilk US Taxpayers via Govt Contracts for work related to the Iraq War — this was NEVER justified, not by anything that EVER has happened to ANYONE in the USA.

NEVER justified.

Evie, you’re a charlatan.

“As for Cynthia McKinney – I’ve caught her in more than one unfounded accusations… (blah blah blah talking about Denny the K)”

Evie, please don’t utter such nonsense. If Kucinich were even 1/4 as “progressive” or noble or saintly as you project, then he would be trying to stop Bush-Cheney. But he’s not. He’s not at all. He holds the occasional threat out there, that he “wants to” try for impeachment, but then he says that Pelosi and Reid and Conyers won’t let him do it. WAAAAAAAH. What a baby. So he’d rather cry, than do something that may irritate the Democrat stooges? Oh wait — he IS a Democrat. Could that be part of the problem?

Dennis hasn’t spent a microjoule of energy trying to really help the country toward impeachment. He could spend some time reading his impeachment counts into the Congressional Record, from the floor of the Congress, if he really wanted to put down for history the problems of Bush-Cheney and their many impeachable offenses. But instead, what little Denny the Menny does is complain about his impeachment being stopped by the evil John Conyers.

John Conyers cannot stop Dennis from reading his impeachment counts into the Congressional Record. Nor can Nancy Peloso, or Harry Reid, or any other “powerful” person in the Congress.

You fools are deluded. You choose your saintly Democrats, and then you make up all sorts of excuses for them.

Perhaps you could explain what was “unfounded” about Ms McKinney’s remarks. Do you have proof? Or are you just defaming her?

I think you’re just libelling her.

And I do have empathy – which is why I, my 80 y/o mother, my daughter, and my 10 y/o granddauther froze our buns in January and February of 2003 walking with a dozen other people in Cape Girardeau protesting before the War began – futile attempt but I knew the suffering to come for all involved, including my sons who were on that Kuwait/Iraq border hopeful that the US would not launch an invasion w/o UN sanction, but I knew BushCo would.

I also do not believe the math of the 1.3 million dead but even if true – where were the “progressives” when Clinton sanctions killed a million Iraqi, 500,000 of them children?

Pragmatism – there will not be sufficient numbers of US troops willing to stand-down. Four years ago I was supporting this option but it will not happen, hence I search for other options/solutions.

Evie believes that “leaving Iraq will not be as easy as leaving Vietnam…” Easy? The U.S. began sending “advisers” into Vietnam in earnest in 1962 and finally pulled its troops out in 1973. The hope is that it does not take nearly that long for the U.S. to extricate itself from that abattoir in Iraq.

Evie seems to lack that quality that so many other Americans do not possess and that is empathy. It would appear that if she did possess that quality she should be able to imagine what it is like having a tank roll down her street or have a bomb crash through her house or have a foreign soldier break down her door or see a foreign soldier walk down her street or her place of employment in battle fatigues and especially carrying an assault rifle. If she did experience and see these things, one suspects that she most likely would feel fear, anger, loathing, contempt, bitterness, hatred at those foreign soldiers who are occupying her country. For that is exactly how the overwhelming majority of Iraqis justifiably feel [and probably the rest of the Middle East, with the exception of Israel] concerning the unwanted presence of American soldiers on their soil.

As I mentioned on the earlier comments, the best way to end a war is to have it happen from within. Perhaps I am wrong but it seems that Evie does not look too kindly upon the IVAW [Iraq Veterans Against the War]. Why I do not know but these people are the true heroes of this country. Evie says, quite correctly “I am extremely cautious regarding heroes of the “left”. One person who immediately comes to mind is Iraq veteran and liberal hawk Paul Rieckhoff who is quick to criticize what Bush is doing in Iraq but yet is against the immediate withdrawal of American troops from Iraq. This does not strike me as the best way of supporting the troops, which would be to continue to leave them in that slaughterhouse thus ensuring that more of them will be returning to this country in coffins and even more of them filling up VA beds across this country because they have been brain damaged, severely burned, blinded, paralyzed, missing an arm or a leg [or both] and suffering from the effects [as I am] of PTSD.

Evie may perhaps wish to read a book which deals with this subject, Mission Rejected-U.S Soldiers Who Say NO to Iraq by Peter Laufer, in which he has those who were in the military discuss why they can no longer in good conscience participate in this illegal and immoral war/occupation of Iraq. As constitutional scholar Michael Ratner points out, “When this country gives them medals of honor I will know we live in a just society.”

They all began with JrROTC in high school, I think mainly at that age the uniform was a “babe magnet” as they put it. But they have done well financially and educationally in the military and don’t complain too often. They are at times frustrated with the yapping in the political arena – where the pols and voters continue doing the same thing and expecting different results.

They went to DLI/MI and liked their work so stayed. After a dozen years they reasoned why not stay in and retire young. My youngest joined simply b/c his older brothers were in, although his brothers tried to discourage him from enlisting; he is in Anbar now, second tour, chopper pilot – as a teen he paid for his own flight lessons to fly small planes.

While they believe going into Afghanistan and Iraq were wrong they don’t believe any of the proposed plans from the “progressive” camps are viable. Leaving Iraq will not be as easy as leaving Vietnam and the repercussions much more serious, but I would need too many pages to go into details of that.

They wear a uniform for many many reasons but partly b/c they believe the US, with all its horrendous flaws and ugliness, is still the best place to live and serve – not because they wanted to “go kill people.”

Go kill people – hmmm … sounds more politically correct than “baby killers.”

lol, it’s like a compliment inside an insult…he gets more ass than a toilet seat, but leaves the girls wanting.

God stuff…Keep writing, Evie.

Perhaps I am just not as impressed with international “experts” as you seem to be. Poor little Rand Corporation Daniel Ellsberg, thank goodness he risk all to give us the Pentagoon Papers and change imperial America for the better – wait, hmmm, well nevermind.

As for Cynthia McKinney – I’ve caught her in more than one unfounded accusations, e.g. in a speech to raise funds for Muslim groups targeted by government investigations she repeated the hoax : “Why is it that Dennis Kucinich gets a visit from representatives of Nancy Pelosi and AIPAC and they tell him that they will guarantee his reelection if he drops his impeachment effort.” Kucinich had denied this ever happened – it was an internet rumor. Someone with McKinney’s experience should not have been that sloppy with rhetoric.

If they’re not shot down in the plaza, literally or figuratively, they are on the agenda that the ruling class allows – it gives the appearance we have “freedom” and choice, a “voice”. And they all make a darn good living off careers as the voice of dissidence in America – although never actually accomplishing anything they’re always supporting and working and talking about changing things. God forbid they outline any methods to bring down the system and replace it with something better. Activists my ass.

I really don’t give a shit who supports Watada – always the same “left/progressive” folks out front telling the little sheople who their McHeroes are this year. The only “movement” going on is the paper petition brigade.

You still insist that Watada should have known better than to enlist, ignoring the fact that I had attempted to explain that he joined, as thousands of others did, [such as Andrew Bachevich's son] for misguided reasons.such as patriotism. Instead of praising him for obtaining an epiphany regarding the invasion, you instead choose to bizarrely condemn him for his actions. You also claim this is what “whiter” folks only belatedly recognize, that their government lies to them, apparently not somehow realizing that Ehren Watada is not “white” but is instead of Asian descent.

Perhaps you also believe that such people as international law experts such as Richard Falk and Benjamin Davis [who happens to be black] and former Vietnam veteran Ron Kovic and Marjorie Cohn [president of the National Lawyers Guild] and Daniel Ellsberg and former Representative Cynthia McKinney [who, also amazingly, happens to be an African-American] and Howard Zinn are all misguided in their support of Ehren Watada. If so, then I will gladly state that I also have been duped by joining the above mentioned individuals in my support of the lieutenant.

We can install Obama or Hillary or any new “progressive” face in November and the same shaft will still be bending us over. Democrats just give us a little kiss before they do it – and they prefer to do it under UN auspice or “humanitarian” here to help you Haiti, Kosovo, oops Rwanda, etc.

I have a friend in Arkansas who says Bill is not so big. All huevos and no sausage.

Seriously, I can say with pride I never voted for Bill – I was out of the country both times and didn’t get an absentee ballot. Whew!

Perhaps part of the problem is that as a black woman I expect the government to lie and apparently whiter folks have only recently discovered the government lies.

Your insinuation that he is doing this for political and monetary gain is simply beneath contempt. I also expect 98% of people getting their 15 minutes wanted those 15 minutes. Time will tell.

“… that to stop an illegal and unjust war, the soldiers can choose to stop fighting it.” Will the same folks be donating to fund a million unemployed soldiers and their dependents? Better yet, as we’re all in this together – we can choose to stop funding war, boycott corporate profiteers, refuse to pay taxes, citizens tear up those 1040s. I will if you will.