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	<title>Comments on: Saving the American Left: The Case for a New Progressive Creed</title>
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	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: Jos Boersema</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-26797</link>
		<dc:creator>Jos Boersema</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-26797</guid>
		<description>Trade is good, but it must be embedded and not be anarchist. Anarchist (naturally developped) trade will include trade in land and money, which is where it goes wrong. For prices to be fair, each person needs to have equal power, that is land (primarily): distribution of land. Selling of money is dangerous, because it is most profitable where a business exploits its workforce (and does bad law-evading deeds), that will put an amoral elite in power. See my site for very extensive details and proposed constitutional model (ultra extreme democratic). Regards. PS What&#039;s wrong with Marx: makes the whole country 1 big organization: corruption &amp; fixation set in, a market system is dynamic and weeds out the lazy and incompetent. What&#039;s wrong with A.Smith: allows trade in land and money. Quick reference chart: http://www.jhwh.be/party/nl/david-we/chart.en.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trade is good, but it must be embedded and not be anarchist. Anarchist (naturally developped) trade will include trade in land and money, which is where it goes wrong. For prices to be fair, each person needs to have equal power, that is land (primarily): distribution of land. Selling of money is dangerous, because it is most profitable where a business exploits its workforce (and does bad law-evading deeds), that will put an amoral elite in power. See my site for very extensive details and proposed constitutional model (ultra extreme democratic). Regards. PS What&#8217;s wrong with Marx: makes the whole country 1 big organization: corruption &amp; fixation set in, a market system is dynamic and weeds out the lazy and incompetent. What&#8217;s wrong with A.Smith: allows trade in land and money. Quick reference chart: <a href="http://www.jhwh.be/party/nl/david-we/chart.en.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jhwh.be/party/nl/david-we/chart.en.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dissident Voice : Wanna Fix the Economy? Give Workers a Raise</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-18391</link>
		<dc:creator>Dissident Voice : Wanna Fix the Economy? Give Workers a Raise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-18391</guid>
		<description>[...] an excerpt from Bernard Chazelle&#8217;s article “Saving the American Left: A New Progressive Creed”:  By virtually any measure, the United States is the least progressive nation in the developed [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an excerpt from Bernard Chazelle&#8217;s article “Saving the American Left: A New Progressive Creed”:  By virtually any measure, the United States is the least progressive nation in the developed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: hp</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-17859</link>
		<dc:creator>hp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 22:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-17859</guid>
		<description>And now we&#039;ve got DU all over them too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And now we&#8217;ve got DU all over them too.</p>
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		<title>By: Micah Pyre</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-17856</link>
		<dc:creator>Micah Pyre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-17856</guid>
		<description>Why ignore or forgo the the imagination required to conceive of a different entity that lets &quot;the left&quot; have its Al Gores, its Bill Clintons, its Hillary Clintons, its Barack Obamas?

Why not just let them keep their pretense of being different from the Republicans, and form a new entity that has nothing at all to do with the Democratic party?

Is that too frightening for old die-hard Demos?

Why can&#039;t it be done?

Why can&#039;t people rally around Ralph Nader, or Cynthia McKinney, or Mike Gravel?

Is it because the mainstream infotainment media tell you that they&#039;re &quot;not serious&quot; candidates?

Is it because you think that the only one who can win is someone who is from a &quot;major&quot; party?

Is it because you would rather pretend to support something that will change America, and not actually work for that change?

What explains this fond romanticism for &quot;the Left&quot; and its ridiculous, childish ties to the Democrats?

Try to remember, people, that political parties change and eventually they no longer resemble whatever instigated their original formation.  At the time of the Civil War, the Republicans were working to end slavery.  And now?  They seek financial enslavement of everyone!  As do the Democrats!

It&#039;s frustrating reading these fond reminiscences of the &quot;left&quot; and the &quot;Democrats&quot; that are seen through a much-too-rosy filter.  

See reality as it is !  

See that the Democrats will not be changed.

See that the path to change lays with a 3d party, an overhaul of the electoral process, and perhaps even an elimination of the Senate.  

Return to the original Articles of Confederation that worked between 1776 and 1787, so that you may see the true self-government impulses that were behind the formation of America.

And try to bear in mind that we slaughtered a whole lot of natives (&quot;Indians&quot;) in the bargain, because the blood hasn&#039;t yet been washed off our collective hands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why ignore or forgo the the imagination required to conceive of a different entity that lets &#8220;the left&#8221; have its Al Gores, its Bill Clintons, its Hillary Clintons, its Barack Obamas?</p>
<p>Why not just let them keep their pretense of being different from the Republicans, and form a new entity that has nothing at all to do with the Democratic party?</p>
<p>Is that too frightening for old die-hard Demos?</p>
<p>Why can&#8217;t it be done?</p>
<p>Why can&#8217;t people rally around Ralph Nader, or Cynthia McKinney, or Mike Gravel?</p>
<p>Is it because the mainstream infotainment media tell you that they&#8217;re &#8220;not serious&#8221; candidates?</p>
<p>Is it because you think that the only one who can win is someone who is from a &#8220;major&#8221; party?</p>
<p>Is it because you would rather pretend to support something that will change America, and not actually work for that change?</p>
<p>What explains this fond romanticism for &#8220;the Left&#8221; and its ridiculous, childish ties to the Democrats?</p>
<p>Try to remember, people, that political parties change and eventually they no longer resemble whatever instigated their original formation.  At the time of the Civil War, the Republicans were working to end slavery.  And now?  They seek financial enslavement of everyone!  As do the Democrats!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s frustrating reading these fond reminiscences of the &#8220;left&#8221; and the &#8220;Democrats&#8221; that are seen through a much-too-rosy filter.  </p>
<p>See reality as it is !  </p>
<p>See that the Democrats will not be changed.</p>
<p>See that the path to change lays with a 3d party, an overhaul of the electoral process, and perhaps even an elimination of the Senate.  </p>
<p>Return to the original Articles of Confederation that worked between 1776 and 1787, so that you may see the true self-government impulses that were behind the formation of America.</p>
<p>And try to bear in mind that we slaughtered a whole lot of natives (&#8221;Indians&#8221;) in the bargain, because the blood hasn&#8217;t yet been washed off our collective hands.</p>
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		<title>By: hp</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-17838</link>
		<dc:creator>hp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-17838</guid>
		<description>With talk like this , you&#039;ve written your epitaph before you&#039;ve even been born.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With talk like this , you&#8217;ve written your epitaph before you&#8217;ve even been born.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Lapon</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-17835</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Lapon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-17835</guid>
		<description>I definitely agree that the Left needs to be rebuilt independently of the democrats, but I don&#039;t think that project begins with a new creed.  It begins, in my opinion, with organizing people at the grassroots level around concrete demands (which as you point out, majorities agree on) such as ending the war and a myriad other economic and political issues such as the struggle for health care, immigrant rights, against racism, etc, keeping in mind the need to link these struggles together in a broader Left.  What creed(s) is adopted by various segments of this rebuilt Left will be decided by debates from within, not by pronouncements from on high.

Also, I wouldn&#039;t be so quick to rule out Marxism, or to take people like Stalin or Richard Pipes at their word when they claim the USSR is &quot;Marxism in action.&quot;  Every minority ruling class uses ideology to justify their rule at the expense of the interests of the majority.  Stalin used the language of Marxism as cover for the bureaucrats&#039; exploitation of the working class and peasantry, just like George Bush uses the language of democracy and freedom as cover for US imperialism in the Middle East and Central Asia.  Similarly to a point you make above, Stalin&#039;s use of the language of Marxism was used to discredit actual Marxism, whose fundamental principles Stalin rejected.  Stalin rejected internationalism for &quot;socialism in one country&quot;; working class self-emancipation for the expansion Russian imperialism; democracy for totalitarianism.  We should not ignore the real Marxist tradition, kept alive initially by Trotsky (who Stalin murdered) and his followers, as we seek to build a Left that can combat the horrible injustice you point to.

In solidarity,
Gary L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely agree that the Left needs to be rebuilt independently of the democrats, but I don&#8217;t think that project begins with a new creed.  It begins, in my opinion, with organizing people at the grassroots level around concrete demands (which as you point out, majorities agree on) such as ending the war and a myriad other economic and political issues such as the struggle for health care, immigrant rights, against racism, etc, keeping in mind the need to link these struggles together in a broader Left.  What creed(s) is adopted by various segments of this rebuilt Left will be decided by debates from within, not by pronouncements from on high.</p>
<p>Also, I wouldn&#8217;t be so quick to rule out Marxism, or to take people like Stalin or Richard Pipes at their word when they claim the USSR is &#8220;Marxism in action.&#8221;  Every minority ruling class uses ideology to justify their rule at the expense of the interests of the majority.  Stalin used the language of Marxism as cover for the bureaucrats&#8217; exploitation of the working class and peasantry, just like George Bush uses the language of democracy and freedom as cover for US imperialism in the Middle East and Central Asia.  Similarly to a point you make above, Stalin&#8217;s use of the language of Marxism was used to discredit actual Marxism, whose fundamental principles Stalin rejected.  Stalin rejected internationalism for &#8220;socialism in one country&#8221;; working class self-emancipation for the expansion Russian imperialism; democracy for totalitarianism.  We should not ignore the real Marxist tradition, kept alive initially by Trotsky (who Stalin murdered) and his followers, as we seek to build a Left that can combat the horrible injustice you point to.</p>
<p>In solidarity,<br />
Gary L</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Wells</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-17717</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Wells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 00:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-17717</guid>
		<description>Two current articles, arising from &quot;dead&quot; Marxism, that provide an understanding of current affairs and what will be needed for human progress. 

 US jobless figures: The specter of a new depression
By David Walsh 5 April 2008
&quot;Millions of Americans face the prospect of a sharp decline in living standards and conditions of life. Because of their commitment to the profit system, no section of the US political establishment—neither the Bush administration and the McCain campaign nor the Clinton and Obama camps—is capable of proposing any measures that will materially assist those seeing their jobs, homes nor social benefits disappear or devastated by the present developments.&quot;
...
The decline of the position of American capitalism in the world, its decisive loss of global hegemony, has the most profound implications. For wide layers of the population it means, in the first place, a series of severe shocks. In the end, this process must have revolutionary political consequences.&quot;

Here is link to full article:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/apr2008/jobs-a05.shtml
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And this article from the editor of MONTHLY REVIEW April 2008:

The Financialization of Capital and the Crisis ,  by John Bellamy Foster

Here is the link to the full article:

http://www.monthlyreview.org/080401foster.php

  The hard truth of the matter is that the regime of monopoly-finance capital is designed to benefit a tiny group of oligopolists who dominate both production and finance. A relatively small number of individuals and corporations control huge pools of capital and find no other way to continue to make money on the required scale than through a heavy reliance on finance and speculation. This is a deep-seated contradiction intrinsic to the development of capitalism itself. If the goal is to advance the needs of humanity as a whole, the world will sooner or later have to embrace an alternative system. There is no other way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two current articles, arising from &#8220;dead&#8221; Marxism, that provide an understanding of current affairs and what will be needed for human progress. </p>
<p> US jobless figures: The specter of a new depression<br />
By David Walsh 5 April 2008<br />
&#8220;Millions of Americans face the prospect of a sharp decline in living standards and conditions of life. Because of their commitment to the profit system, no section of the US political establishment—neither the Bush administration and the McCain campaign nor the Clinton and Obama camps—is capable of proposing any measures that will materially assist those seeing their jobs, homes nor social benefits disappear or devastated by the present developments.&#8221;<br />
&#8230;<br />
The decline of the position of American capitalism in the world, its decisive loss of global hegemony, has the most profound implications. For wide layers of the population it means, in the first place, a series of severe shocks. In the end, this process must have revolutionary political consequences.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here is link to full article:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/apr2008/jobs-a05.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/apr2008/jobs-a05.shtml</a><br />
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<br />
And this article from the editor of MONTHLY REVIEW April 2008:</p>
<p>The Financialization of Capital and the Crisis ,  by John Bellamy Foster</p>
<p>Here is the link to the full article:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.monthlyreview.org/080401foster.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.monthlyreview.org/080401foster.php</a></p>
<p>  The hard truth of the matter is that the regime of monopoly-finance capital is designed to benefit a tiny group of oligopolists who dominate both production and finance. A relatively small number of individuals and corporations control huge pools of capital and find no other way to continue to make money on the required scale than through a heavy reliance on finance and speculation. This is a deep-seated contradiction intrinsic to the development of capitalism itself. If the goal is to advance the needs of humanity as a whole, the world will sooner or later have to embrace an alternative system. There is no other way.</p>
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		<title>By: sk</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-17600</link>
		<dc:creator>sk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 03:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/saving-the-american-left-the-case-for-a-new-progressive-creed/#comment-17600</guid>
		<description>The quote toward the end is actually Antonio Gramsci paraphrasing something said by a countryman of M. Chazelle, &lt;a href=&quot;http://radicalreference.info/node/574&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Romain Rolland&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The quote toward the end is actually Antonio Gramsci paraphrasing something said by a countryman of M. Chazelle, <a href="http://radicalreference.info/node/574" rel="nofollow">Romain Rolland</a>.</p>
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