<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Independent Electoral Movement Sprouts with Former Democrats and Republicans Challenging Their Former Party on Iraq</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:51:44 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: hp</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18314</link>
		<dc:creator>hp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18314</guid>
		<description>Though not inspiring or conducive to positivity, the cynics are right nine times out of ten. Hardly a waste of time listening and possibly even acting on the rotten truth as opposed to what could be or should be.
You know, shooting the messenger and all that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though not inspiring or conducive to positivity, the cynics are right nine times out of ten. Hardly a waste of time listening and possibly even acting on the rotten truth as opposed to what could be or should be.<br />
You know, shooting the messenger and all that&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ashley</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18285</link>
		<dc:creator>ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 03:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18285</guid>
		<description>The best approach is to ignore the US presidential election altogether since it is thoroughly controlled by the current duopoly which is really one beast with two wings as Nader rightly says. Rather Gravel&#039;s idea to go for the whatever-it&#039;s-called process that essentially is a mass plebiscite to overthrow the existing system, a process which is enshrined in the constitution for precisely this sort of situation. By continuing to buy into the presidential election cycle, nothing of substance is organized year after year. 

Obama said a good thing about Iraq: he regards his job as not to simply deal with tactical military and diplomatic issues but rather change the entire mindset that got us in there in the first place. Changing the mindset and the underlying system is the only way to deal with this. I think a simple antiwar platform, for this reason, is a profound mistake because it does not address the underlying systemic root causes. And there is no way they can be addressed in a conventional Presidential campaign. 

Time for like-minded progressives to organize a parallel process using the internet and talk radio. Very cheap. Can reach millions.  Signatures can be signed. A conventional assembled within a few years and the government system changed. Gravel has a whole lot about this in one of his affiliated sites and although I don&#039;t think much of him as a public figure at this point, I think he has the single best idea of what can practically be done. Nader is brilliant on many levels but yet another campaign run is pissing in the wind and a huge waste of time and energy.  I wish he would realise this and help facilitate something more substantive.

It all seems so hopeless sometimes; and yet cynicism is also a waste of time.  The progressive movement is splintered and without any real leader. And that is what it is going to take. It is always so in human affairs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best approach is to ignore the US presidential election altogether since it is thoroughly controlled by the current duopoly which is really one beast with two wings as Nader rightly says. Rather Gravel&#8217;s idea to go for the whatever-it&#8217;s-called process that essentially is a mass plebiscite to overthrow the existing system, a process which is enshrined in the constitution for precisely this sort of situation. By continuing to buy into the presidential election cycle, nothing of substance is organized year after year. </p>
<p>Obama said a good thing about Iraq: he regards his job as not to simply deal with tactical military and diplomatic issues but rather change the entire mindset that got us in there in the first place. Changing the mindset and the underlying system is the only way to deal with this. I think a simple antiwar platform, for this reason, is a profound mistake because it does not address the underlying systemic root causes. And there is no way they can be addressed in a conventional Presidential campaign. </p>
<p>Time for like-minded progressives to organize a parallel process using the internet and talk radio. Very cheap. Can reach millions.  Signatures can be signed. A conventional assembled within a few years and the government system changed. Gravel has a whole lot about this in one of his affiliated sites and although I don&#8217;t think much of him as a public figure at this point, I think he has the single best idea of what can practically be done. Nader is brilliant on many levels but yet another campaign run is pissing in the wind and a huge waste of time and energy.  I wish he would realise this and help facilitate something more substantive.</p>
<p>It all seems so hopeless sometimes; and yet cynicism is also a waste of time.  The progressive movement is splintered and without any real leader. And that is what it is going to take. It is always so in human affairs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Yager</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18211</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Yager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 00:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18211</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s official in Arizona.  The Greens needed 20,449 valid signatures to get on the ballot until November 2009.  They ended up with 22,570.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s official in Arizona.  The Greens needed 20,449 valid signatures to get on the ballot until November 2009.  They ended up with 22,570.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dan e</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18137</link>
		<dc:creator>dan e</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 05:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18137</guid>
		<description>its past my beddiebye time so I&#039;ll probly regret this in the moron, but I liked what Eve said. Deadbeat naild a buncha stuff as usual. Al is hunderd pct right of course, but that&#039;s just the beginning, ABC, where go from that realization? 

Tom Yager points in the right direction: it&#039;s  not about this present election cycle, its about using same to Build A Movement.

Happily a section of the   GP has woke up, accepted Black leadership to an extent. The Democrats are the problem, GOP is open: &quot;we &#039;re out to screw you because you&#039;re inferior scum&quot;; but Dems claim to be Pty of Common Peeple. Most lowerclass folks buy it hook/line/sinker. Esp Blacks now in throes of Obamania.
Only McKinney can directly challenge Obamism in his core Base. 

Plus Nader still trying peddle two-state illusion, perpetuate the nonsense that Izzy gov&#039;t will ever stop trying to Transfer the bulk of Palestinian population. So he&#039;s no better than damn  Xstian Skyence Moneytor &amp; Geoff &quot;Keep yr Shirt on &amp; y&#039;ll get a Blanket&quot;* Aronson. A perpetuator of Illusion, a peddler of  Myth.

*&quot;Be patient and ye shall receive a Comforter&quot;;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>its past my beddiebye time so I&#8217;ll probly regret this in the moron, but I liked what Eve said. Deadbeat naild a buncha stuff as usual. Al is hunderd pct right of course, but that&#8217;s just the beginning, ABC, where go from that realization? </p>
<p>Tom Yager points in the right direction: it&#8217;s  not about this present election cycle, its about using same to Build A Movement.</p>
<p>Happily a section of the   GP has woke up, accepted Black leadership to an extent. The Democrats are the problem, GOP is open: &#8220;we &#8216;re out to screw you because you&#8217;re inferior scum&#8221;; but Dems claim to be Pty of Common Peeple. Most lowerclass folks buy it hook/line/sinker. Esp Blacks now in throes of Obamania.<br />
Only McKinney can directly challenge Obamism in his core Base. </p>
<p>Plus Nader still trying peddle two-state illusion, perpetuate the nonsense that Izzy gov&#8217;t will ever stop trying to Transfer the bulk of Palestinian population. So he&#8217;s no better than damn  Xstian Skyence Moneytor &amp; Geoff &#8220;Keep yr Shirt on &amp; y&#8217;ll get a Blanket&#8221;* Aronson. A perpetuator of Illusion, a peddler of  Myth.</p>
<p>*&#8221;Be patient and ye shall receive a Comforter&#8221;;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18127</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 01:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18127</guid>
		<description>When will the American voter realize that both parties are bought &amp; paid for by big business? 

Will we have a Republican or a Democrat President in 2008?

Who cares! It&#039;s irrevelant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When will the American voter realize that both parties are bought &amp; paid for by big business? </p>
<p>Will we have a Republican or a Democrat President in 2008?</p>
<p>Who cares! It&#8217;s irrevelant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: hp</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18117</link>
		<dc:creator>hp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18117</guid>
		<description>Whoops, sorry, wrong site.
I&#039;m confused.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops, sorry, wrong site.<br />
I&#8217;m confused.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: hp</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18108</link>
		<dc:creator>hp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18108</guid>
		<description>Anyone else mind spamming and spammers?
Or is this one of the subjects which is &#039;exempt?&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone else mind spamming and spammers?<br />
Or is this one of the subjects which is &#8216;exempt?&#8217;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DavidG.</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18065</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidG.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 05:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18065</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know why there is all this talk about parties in America. People who live in the real world know there is only one party, that&#039;s the : &lt;b&gt; &#039;If There&#039;s No Profit In It, No Deal&#039; &lt;/b&gt;Party which most every good American belongs to.

Is it true that the Stars and Stripes are going and a bucket of money will soon  feature prominently on the America flag?

Look, I&#039;m only kidding. Sort of.

P.S. A homosexual orgy at the Last Supper. Check Dangerous Creation for details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why there is all this talk about parties in America. People who live in the real world know there is only one party, that&#8217;s the : <b> &#8216;If There&#8217;s No Profit In It, No Deal&#8217; </b>Party which most every good American belongs to.</p>
<p>Is it true that the Stars and Stripes are going and a bucket of money will soon  feature prominently on the America flag?</p>
<p>Look, I&#8217;m only kidding. Sort of.</p>
<p>P.S. A homosexual orgy at the Last Supper. Check Dangerous Creation for details.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: HR</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18063</link>
		<dc:creator>HR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 04:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18063</guid>
		<description>When is the Green Party going to change its top leadership?  It won&#039;t get anywhere without leaders who have administrative savvy, in addition to a progressive agenda.  I&#039;m another who wishes Nader and McKinney were running together, and either one at the top of that ticket would be fine with me.  Anything to hasten the departure of the vile ghost of the sold-out and 40-year-dead Democratic &quot;party&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When is the Green Party going to change its top leadership?  It won&#8217;t get anywhere without leaders who have administrative savvy, in addition to a progressive agenda.  I&#8217;m another who wishes Nader and McKinney were running together, and either one at the top of that ticket would be fine with me.  Anything to hasten the departure of the vile ghost of the sold-out and 40-year-dead Democratic &#8220;party&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Yager</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18049</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Yager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18049</guid>
		<description>I agree with most of what Deadbeat says.  Voting for Nader makes a statement, but voting for the Green Presidential candidate builds a movement.  The more votes that the Greens get, the more ballot lines they will have on the day after the election.  

As for our party&#039;s strength relative to 2004, it&#039;s weaker in some places but stronger in others.  For example, the Greens will be on the ballot in Illinois this year because of the strength of their petition drive and statewide candidates in the 2006 election.  We are also very likely to be on the ballot in Arizona.   In 2004, we didn&#039;t even come close to getting ont the ballot in either state.

Go Green:  www.gp.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most of what Deadbeat says.  Voting for Nader makes a statement, but voting for the Green Presidential candidate builds a movement.  The more votes that the Greens get, the more ballot lines they will have on the day after the election.  </p>
<p>As for our party&#8217;s strength relative to 2004, it&#8217;s weaker in some places but stronger in others.  For example, the Greens will be on the ballot in Illinois this year because of the strength of their petition drive and statewide candidates in the 2006 election.  We are also very likely to be on the ballot in Arizona.   In 2004, we didn&#8217;t even come close to getting ont the ballot in either state.</p>
<p>Go Green:  <a href="http://www.gp.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.gp.org</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rich Griffin</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18041</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Griffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18041</guid>
		<description>Hey I am willing to sign on to a class action suit against these criminals. Tell me how to do it, and I will do it.

I believe the only way out of our mess is to do what the forefathers suggested: once this system no longer works, tear it down, and start all over again. I believe strongly what we need to do is switch to a scandanavian (I like the swedish system the best, but all 5 are generally excellent; we can make it even better here) type of parliamentary system - multi-party, IRV, take the money out &amp; the long drawn out process, and all of the bribes, putting LOW caps on how much money can be spent (it disgusts me that these candidates will raise hundreds of millions of dollars each when that money would be better used for really important things)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey I am willing to sign on to a class action suit against these criminals. Tell me how to do it, and I will do it.</p>
<p>I believe the only way out of our mess is to do what the forefathers suggested: once this system no longer works, tear it down, and start all over again. I believe strongly what we need to do is switch to a scandanavian (I like the swedish system the best, but all 5 are generally excellent; we can make it even better here) type of parliamentary system &#8211; multi-party, IRV, take the money out &amp; the long drawn out process, and all of the bribes, putting LOW caps on how much money can be spent (it disgusts me that these candidates will raise hundreds of millions of dollars each when that money would be better used for really important things)&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bozhidar balkas</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18039</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar balkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18039</guid>
		<description>if nader wins but 5% of the votes, it would mark a begining of a two party system. dems and reps may be likened onto a goose with two wings; when it come s to cosmetic changes,  one wing may flip, another flop  but whenit comes to expansion by any means the two wings beat in unison.  working class is totaslly out of it.  it&#039;s been rendered semantically  blind by (mis)education,  jingoisn,  self praies,  claims of  a higher standart,  nobility,  good intentions, evocation of great perils , etc.  but there appears to be an awakening; it&#039;s good for america and the world. we need to condemn collective  punishment for crimes done by individuals and vice versa.
thus,  let&#039;s not demonize bush; at least 5million US citizens are responsible for all US crimes over a century. thank  you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if nader wins but 5% of the votes, it would mark a begining of a two party system. dems and reps may be likened onto a goose with two wings; when it come s to cosmetic changes,  one wing may flip, another flop  but whenit comes to expansion by any means the two wings beat in unison.  working class is totaslly out of it.  it&#8217;s been rendered semantically  blind by (mis)education,  jingoisn,  self praies,  claims of  a higher standart,  nobility,  good intentions, evocation of great perils , etc.  but there appears to be an awakening; it&#8217;s good for america and the world. we need to condemn collective  punishment for crimes done by individuals and vice versa.<br />
thus,  let&#8217;s not demonize bush; at least 5million US citizens are responsible for all US crimes over a century. thank  you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: evie</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18029</link>
		<dc:creator>evie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18029</guid>
		<description>Lets say, there&#039;s a snowball freeze in hell, and one of the 3 candidates above is installed in the White House and immediately orders US withdrawal or &quot;redeployment&quot; of troops stateside.

What will said prez do when the Shiites, with aid and direction from Muqtada Sadr sitting in Qom, Iran, decide to purge Iraq of dissidents, both Shia and Sunni - and then the Saudi decide to lend a little help to their Sunni brothers in Iraq, and then of course to keep the entire region from conflagrating Russia and/or China, in dire need of stable oil supplies, steps in to stabilize the situation, and hopefully sell a little oil to the US of A.

Or, lets say, said prez redeploys/withdraws troops to neighboring ME countries - would that be Kuwait? Saudi? Afghanistan? Turkey? They would love to accomodate US right? Or maybe the US could station just across the Gulf in Oman, UAE, Yemen? That would solve all the US dicking around in the ME, right? Or maybe a little further away in the &#039;hood, over in Somalia, Kenya, Sudan? US AFRICOM, based in Stuttgart, Germany, is eager to enhance their presence on the African continent.

I plan on voting 3rd party, if I bother to vote this time around. But third parties seem to have no plans for the aftermath of anything.  Will they cut the cost of war or pump the same billions into &quot;restitution and reconstruction&quot; companies rather than defense contractors? 

How much cooperation will a third party prez in the Oval Office get from a corrupted congress of corrupted two parties? How will the new third party be immune to corruption - after all the Republicans and Democrats were once a new third party.

And even if we had a dozen choices - we would still have the same &quot;corporate America, the religious right, and the media&quot; and I might add the &quot;progressive industry&quot; managing the same political sideshow.

I lean more toward believing it&#039;s not as simple as changing the party designation behind the candidates name - and more toward holding pols accountable with jail time, loss of profit/property, public flogging ... tar/feathers.

One possible solution, short of bearing arms, is boycott - hit them in their wallets - good and hard. Which Joe Idolology is not going to do, at least until he&#039;s forced to by economic circumstances and by then it is too late. 

You can&#039;t really believe the &quot;ruling class&quot; is going to give up their lucrative system without a fight. They have 200+ years of swatting off &quot;dissidents&quot; like fleas on a dog&#039;s butt.

Just keep shopping and voting - it encourages &quot;them.&quot; When the US has no more butter and bullets the new pols new deal will have canned meat and bean vouchers  for everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets say, there&#8217;s a snowball freeze in hell, and one of the 3 candidates above is installed in the White House and immediately orders US withdrawal or &#8220;redeployment&#8221; of troops stateside.</p>
<p>What will said prez do when the Shiites, with aid and direction from Muqtada Sadr sitting in Qom, Iran, decide to purge Iraq of dissidents, both Shia and Sunni &#8211; and then the Saudi decide to lend a little help to their Sunni brothers in Iraq, and then of course to keep the entire region from conflagrating Russia and/or China, in dire need of stable oil supplies, steps in to stabilize the situation, and hopefully sell a little oil to the US of A.</p>
<p>Or, lets say, said prez redeploys/withdraws troops to neighboring ME countries &#8211; would that be Kuwait? Saudi? Afghanistan? Turkey? They would love to accomodate US right? Or maybe the US could station just across the Gulf in Oman, UAE, Yemen? That would solve all the US dicking around in the ME, right? Or maybe a little further away in the &#8216;hood, over in Somalia, Kenya, Sudan? US AFRICOM, based in Stuttgart, Germany, is eager to enhance their presence on the African continent.</p>
<p>I plan on voting 3rd party, if I bother to vote this time around. But third parties seem to have no plans for the aftermath of anything.  Will they cut the cost of war or pump the same billions into &#8220;restitution and reconstruction&#8221; companies rather than defense contractors? </p>
<p>How much cooperation will a third party prez in the Oval Office get from a corrupted congress of corrupted two parties? How will the new third party be immune to corruption &#8211; after all the Republicans and Democrats were once a new third party.</p>
<p>And even if we had a dozen choices &#8211; we would still have the same &#8220;corporate America, the religious right, and the media&#8221; and I might add the &#8220;progressive industry&#8221; managing the same political sideshow.</p>
<p>I lean more toward believing it&#8217;s not as simple as changing the party designation behind the candidates name &#8211; and more toward holding pols accountable with jail time, loss of profit/property, public flogging &#8230; tar/feathers.</p>
<p>One possible solution, short of bearing arms, is boycott &#8211; hit them in their wallets &#8211; good and hard. Which Joe Idolology is not going to do, at least until he&#8217;s forced to by economic circumstances and by then it is too late. </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t really believe the &#8220;ruling class&#8221; is going to give up their lucrative system without a fight. They have 200+ years of swatting off &#8220;dissidents&#8221; like fleas on a dog&#8217;s butt.</p>
<p>Just keep shopping and voting &#8211; it encourages &#8220;them.&#8221; When the US has no more butter and bullets the new pols new deal will have canned meat and bean vouchers  for everyone.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jerry D. Rose</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18022</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry D. Rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18022</guid>
		<description>Rich Griffin, you apparently overlooked a paragraph of Kevin&#039;s article, where McKinney&#039;s &quot;name&quot; was mentioned quite prominently. Deadbeat, I agree that a Nader/McKinney or McKinney/Nader Green Party ticket would be great and, while I share your skepticism about the GP&#039;s track record in campaigns, necessity could well be the mother of invention in promoting a reform in their campaigning act.  There is no reason I know of that the GP could not yet nominate both N and Mc for the ticket when they have their nominating convention; whether Nader would agree to this I don&#039;t know, but an &quot;independent&quot; candidate (without party support) is not going to win it (or mount a t credible threat to the Democrats&#039; nominee), and, while I like Barr&#039;s and Paul&#039;s anti-war stances, the domestic side of the Libertarian party is anything but progressive.
   Now here&#039;s the scenario in which a strong Green Party run could make a serious impact on the election: who is elected or on what &quot;mandate&quot; the elected candidated is voted in.  The GP of course makes a consistent progressive run across the whole range of their values and, as Rich urges, we make a persistent demand that its candidate be included in the debates.  Assuming that Obama is nominated, the D&#039;s are going to be saddled with a very vulnerable candidate; the recent  post by Evelyn Pringle on that site shows just how vulnerable, since it goes to the issue of political corruption and we&#039;ve seen how quickly a political figure can be Spitzer-ized, even if he or she were immaculate in ideological purity.
It&#039;s tragic, but the election and maybe the future of the world could turn on Tony Rezko&#039;s driveway.  With an &quot;unelectable&quot; candidate nominated (and there are reasons other than the driveway that this will be the case) , the whole  &quot;a vote-for-Nader-is-a-vote-for-McCain&quot; bugaboo goes right out the window.  Obama would be the &quot;Nader&quot; of 2008, a &quot;can&#039;t win&quot; candidate, so that a vote for Obama would be a &quot;wasted&quot; vote that deprives McKinney or Nader from gaining the presidency and would in effect elect McCain.  Wilder things than this have happened, and I&#039;m not asking for any status as a prophet who foresees unlikely outcomes, but well, give it a thought before you pooh-pooh it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich Griffin, you apparently overlooked a paragraph of Kevin&#8217;s article, where McKinney&#8217;s &#8220;name&#8221; was mentioned quite prominently. Deadbeat, I agree that a Nader/McKinney or McKinney/Nader Green Party ticket would be great and, while I share your skepticism about the GP&#8217;s track record in campaigns, necessity could well be the mother of invention in promoting a reform in their campaigning act.  There is no reason I know of that the GP could not yet nominate both N and Mc for the ticket when they have their nominating convention; whether Nader would agree to this I don&#8217;t know, but an &#8220;independent&#8221; candidate (without party support) is not going to win it (or mount a t credible threat to the Democrats&#8217; nominee), and, while I like Barr&#8217;s and Paul&#8217;s anti-war stances, the domestic side of the Libertarian party is anything but progressive.<br />
   Now here&#8217;s the scenario in which a strong Green Party run could make a serious impact on the election: who is elected or on what &#8220;mandate&#8221; the elected candidated is voted in.  The GP of course makes a consistent progressive run across the whole range of their values and, as Rich urges, we make a persistent demand that its candidate be included in the debates.  Assuming that Obama is nominated, the D&#8217;s are going to be saddled with a very vulnerable candidate; the recent  post by Evelyn Pringle on that site shows just how vulnerable, since it goes to the issue of political corruption and we&#8217;ve seen how quickly a political figure can be Spitzer-ized, even if he or she were immaculate in ideological purity.<br />
It&#8217;s tragic, but the election and maybe the future of the world could turn on Tony Rezko&#8217;s driveway.  With an &#8220;unelectable&#8221; candidate nominated (and there are reasons other than the driveway that this will be the case) , the whole  &#8220;a vote-for-Nader-is-a-vote-for-McCain&#8221; bugaboo goes right out the window.  Obama would be the &#8220;Nader&#8221; of 2008, a &#8220;can&#8217;t win&#8221; candidate, so that a vote for Obama would be a &#8220;wasted&#8221; vote that deprives McKinney or Nader from gaining the presidency and would in effect elect McCain.  Wilder things than this have happened, and I&#8217;m not asking for any status as a prophet who foresees unlikely outcomes, but well, give it a thought before you pooh-pooh it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18021</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18021</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Where is Cynthia McKinney’s name in this article?? I’m torn between her and Ralph Nader&lt;/i&gt;

And here in lies the problem.  Why didn&#039;t Nader unite with McKinney and try to build a &lt;b&gt;cohesive&lt;/i&gt; left-wing force?  Nader will not leave a lasting institutional organization that can continue on beyond his campaign.  At least McKinney is trying to work within the Green Party framework but alas they&#039;ve been much weaken by their 2004 fiasco.  McKinney is also trying to build the Reconstruction Party that will be more sharply focus on issue of people of color which means here focus and energy are divided.  It would be nice if that energy can be coalesced.  This is why a Nader/McKinney ticket on the Green Party ballot line as well as perhaps independent would have helped to unite left-wing forces.

There are too many divided and sectarian agendas in the left that leaves it in a weaken state and unable to communicate with the masses of people who have been energized this year as demonstrated by their participation in the primaries.  It&#039;s a real shame that the &quot;left&quot; will eventually miss out on this opportunity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Where is Cynthia McKinney’s name in this article?? I’m torn between her and Ralph Nader</i></p>
<p>And here in lies the problem.  Why didn&#8217;t Nader unite with McKinney and try to build a <b>cohesive left-wing force?  Nader will not leave a lasting institutional organization that can continue on beyond his campaign.  At least McKinney is trying to work within the Green Party framework but alas they&#8217;ve been much weaken by their 2004 fiasco.  McKinney is also trying to build the Reconstruction Party that will be more sharply focus on issue of people of color which means here focus and energy are divided.  It would be nice if that energy can be coalesced.  This is why a Nader/McKinney ticket on the Green Party ballot line as well as perhaps independent would have helped to unite left-wing forces.</p>
<p>There are too many divided and sectarian agendas in the left that leaves it in a weaken state and unable to communicate with the masses of people who have been energized this year as demonstrated by their participation in the primaries.  It&#8217;s a real shame that the &#8220;left&#8221; will eventually miss out on this opportunity.</b></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rich Griffin</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18015</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Griffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/independent-electoral-movement-sprouts-with-former-democrats-and-republicans-challenging-their-former-party-on-iraq/#comment-18015</guid>
		<description>Where is Cynthia McKinney&#039;s name in this article?? I&#039;m torn between her and Ralph Nader - I will vote for one of them in November. Why are we not writing to every newspaper (as  I have locally) demanding that  &quot;third&quot; parties be included in the debates? (all the ones who can realistically get the 270 electoral college votes).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where is Cynthia McKinney&#8217;s name in this article?? I&#8217;m torn between her and Ralph Nader &#8211; I will vote for one of them in November. Why are we not writing to every newspaper (as  I have locally) demanding that  &#8220;third&#8221; parties be included in the debates? (all the ones who can realistically get the 270 electoral college votes).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
