Comments on: If Socialized Medicine is Such a Bad Thing, Then Why Not Privatize the Police and Fire Departments? http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:07:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Kurt http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-34683 Kurt Mon, 29 Dec 2008 04:24:35 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-34683 Socialized medicine ? We already have socialized medicine but it's just a matter of who is paying for it. A fellow I know got a free $80000 bypass surgery operation for free a few years ago because he had no health insurance but he did work. The problem was that his employer didn't pay him much and didn't provide health insurance so who actually paid for the operation - people like me who have insurance. Now I'm no heartless ogre. This fellow needed the operation and he shouldn't be left to die but if we had a better system, he probably could have contributed SOMETHING towards his health care. As more people drop out of health insurance programs because of cost, the more the burden will fall on those who pay health insurance premiums but at some point even the solid middle class won't be able to afford it. In other words, the system will eventually implode on itself. Oh, all of this talk about private companies doing a better job, you won't convince many people in my town of that. We had a nonprofit hospital that was sold to a private company and it's been a disaster. I personally think we need to get the for-profit MBA businessmen out of health care and let health care people run health care. Socialized medicine ? We already have socialized medicine but it’s just a matter of who is paying for it. A fellow I know got a free $80000 bypass surgery operation for free a few years ago because he had no health insurance but he did work. The problem was that his employer didn’t pay him much and didn’t provide health insurance so who actually paid for the operation – people like me who have insurance. Now I’m no heartless ogre. This fellow needed the operation and he shouldn’t be left to die but if we had a better system, he probably could have contributed SOMETHING towards his health care. As more people drop out of health insurance programs because of cost, the more the burden will fall on those who pay health insurance premiums but at some point even the solid middle class won’t be able to afford it. In other words, the system will eventually implode on itself. Oh, all of this talk about private companies doing a better job, you won’t convince many people in my town of that. We had a nonprofit hospital that was sold to a private company and it’s been a disaster. I personally think we need to get the for-profit MBA businessmen out of health care and let health care people run health care.

]]> By: Joe the Plumber http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-30541 Joe the Plumber Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:26:01 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-30541 Firstly, I would like to congratulate the author. On being a complete moron. Read a book. Get out of your ivory tower. Maybe get a job flipping burgers before you write nonsense like this that "sounds good," yet has no truth balue attached to it. First of all, the comparison between police, fire, and medicine doesn't hold up. Sure, privatized police or fire industries might be a bad idea. But only because if fire or crime go unstopped, it runs the risk of destroying the whole community. Not so with medicine. If someone dies, that's one person dead. The whole community doesn't suffer from it. And by no means is health care a "right." If you claim its a right, then you must also claim to have a right to the person performing the procedure. So what is it, slavery now? That's not how the world works. You trade value for value. Now, as for the fact that doctors will "take advantage" of patients in order to make more profits, that's completely Bullshit. You seem to imply that the doctor is always going to do what's in his best interest rather than what is the the best interest of the patient. Its people like you who go out and sue doctors so you can make some money in some frivolous lawsuit, thus driving up malpractice costs to the wazoo. And even IF the doctor only did what made him the most money, I could say that that happens in a lot of other industries. Like every time I take my car in for repairs. I get screwed every time. And, no, its not coincidence that my battery of two years happens to die the day after I take my car in for repairs, or that my transmission fails the day after I take it in. And lawyers. Yeah, I could go on an on about those. But i won't, because most of you people reading this can't comprehend how reality works anyways. You want everything to be given to you, regardless of whether or not you oearned it. So go ahead, vote Obama, keep eating those potato chips and watching TV and expecting the government to do everything for you, because you're sure as hell never going to learn how to take initiative and actually start doing something productive. Thanks for making America's future so bleak! Merry Christmas and a happy New Year! Firstly, I would like to congratulate the author. On being a complete moron. Read a book. Get out of your ivory tower. Maybe get a job flipping burgers before you write nonsense like this that “sounds good,” yet has no truth balue attached to it.

First of all, the comparison between police, fire, and medicine doesn’t hold up. Sure, privatized police or fire industries might be a bad idea. But only because if fire or crime go unstopped, it runs the risk of destroying the whole community. Not so with medicine. If someone dies, that’s one person dead. The whole community doesn’t suffer from it.

And by no means is health care a “right.” If you claim its a right, then you must also claim to have a right to the person performing the procedure. So what is it, slavery now? That’s not how the world works. You trade value for value. Now, as for the fact that doctors will “take advantage” of patients in order to make more profits, that’s completely Bullshit. You seem to imply that the doctor is always going to do what’s in his best interest rather than what is the the best interest of the patient. Its people like you who go out and sue doctors so you can make some money in some frivolous lawsuit, thus driving up malpractice costs to the wazoo. And even IF the doctor only did what made him the most money, I could say that that happens in a lot of other industries. Like every time I take my car in for repairs. I get screwed every time. And, no, its not coincidence that my battery of two years happens to die the day after I take my car in for repairs, or that my transmission fails the day after I take it in. And lawyers. Yeah, I could go on an on about those. But i won’t, because most of you people reading this can’t comprehend how reality works anyways. You want everything to be given to you, regardless of whether or not you oearned it. So go ahead, vote Obama, keep eating those potato chips and watching TV and expecting the government to do everything for you, because you’re sure as hell never going to learn how to take initiative and actually start doing something productive. Thanks for making America’s future so bleak! Merry Christmas and a happy New Year!

]]> By: Rebekah http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-17958 Rebekah Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:09:34 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-17958 To Alan: Coming from a country with, like England, both public health care services and private health care services for those who foolishly think that public medical services will not give them the same standard of care as a private service will, I can say without a doubt that public services are great. I personally stick with the public services because, without the profit motive as you mention, I know that the impulse to slice and dice won't be such a large factor in the public system (ie slice and dice costs more which returns more revenue to the hospital, so there is more incentive in a private system to give the most expensive form of treatment though it may not necessarily be the best). One indication of this impulse on the part of the privatised system is evident in the rates of caesarian sections performed in private hospitals - a far higher rate than that of public hospitals. It's jokingly called the "too posh to push" syndrome, but in reality the private hospitals are not discouraging unnecessary caesar births because they produce higher profits. As far as I can see, when health care is a private business it ceases to be about the care of health. When it is a public system, it is about nothing but the care of health. To Alan:

Coming from a country with, like England, both public health care services and private health care services for those who foolishly think that public medical services will not give them the same standard of care as a private service will, I can say without a doubt that public services are great.

I personally stick with the public services because, without the profit motive as you mention, I know that the impulse to slice and dice won’t be such a large factor in the public system (ie slice and dice costs more which returns more revenue to the hospital, so there is more incentive in a private system to give the most expensive form of treatment though it may not necessarily be the best).

One indication of this impulse on the part of the privatised system is evident in the rates of caesarian sections performed in private hospitals – a far higher rate than that of public hospitals. It’s jokingly called the “too posh to push” syndrome, but in reality the private hospitals are not discouraging unnecessary caesar births because they produce higher profits.

As far as I can see, when health care is a private business it ceases to be about the care of health. When it is a public system, it is about nothing but the care of health.

]]> By: Mike http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-17542 Mike Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:50:01 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-17542 The current mess is NOT "private." It can be better described as FASCIST, as it is a chimaeral monster of government bureaucracy and big business - the very definition thereof. Choosing between the current fascist medical regime and socialist medical care is like choosing between Stalin and Hitler. I suppose you can argue one is better... But I'm interested in neither. The current mess is NOT “private.”

It can be better described as FASCIST, as it is a chimaeral monster of government bureaucracy and big business – the very definition thereof.

Choosing between the current fascist medical regime and socialist medical care is like choosing between Stalin and Hitler. I suppose you can argue one is better…

But I’m interested in neither.

]]> By: Alan North http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-17491 Alan North Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:36:49 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-17491 "It is important to understand that universal health care is not necessarily socialized health care. The latter is true only when most or all medical facilities and caregivers are government owned and employed, as in England. " There is a large and thriving private sector in England. Most large companies provide free insurance cover with private insurers (BUPA, Blue Cross etc) which provide access to a well-equipped private hospital sector. There are even private rooms in state-run hospitals for those who wish to "take responsibility for their own health". If you wish, you may have a private GP, and only use private hospitals - but you'll have to pay or have insurance . It is interesting that the private system in the UK, operating in competition with the state system, is far cheaper than in the US. Which is better? I would always trust the state system over the private one. In the state system the personnel have no profit motive. “It is important to understand that universal health care is not necessarily socialized health care. The latter is true only when most or all medical facilities and caregivers are government owned and employed, as in England. ”

There is a large and thriving private sector in England. Most large companies provide free insurance cover with private insurers (BUPA, Blue Cross etc) which provide access to a well-equipped private hospital sector. There are even private rooms in state-run hospitals for those who wish to “take responsibility for their own health”.

If you wish, you may have a private GP, and only use private hospitals – but you’ll have to pay or have insurance . It is interesting that the private system in the UK, operating in competition with the state system, is far cheaper than in the US.

Which is better? I would always trust the state system over the private one. In the state system the personnel have no profit motive.

]]> By: Colin http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-17439 Colin Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:54:35 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-17439 What amazes me is the constant drumbeat of being a more informed consumer and choosing the right health insurance. As if, in the first place, health care is to be accorded the same approach as buying a car or computer. Further, and i suspect I'm in the majority, my employer spends hours if not days each year choosing the most economical plan. My 'choice' is take it or leave it. I wonder why more small companies aren't screaming for government run universal health care so they can just get that monkey off their backs. What amazes me is the constant drumbeat of being a more informed consumer and choosing the right health insurance. As if, in the first place, health care is to be accorded the same approach as buying a car or computer. Further, and i suspect I’m in the majority, my employer spends hours if not days each year choosing the most economical plan. My ‘choice’ is take it or leave it.

I wonder why more small companies aren’t screaming for government run universal health care so they can just get that monkey off their backs.

]]> By: joed http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-17421 joed Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:23:37 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/if-socialized-medicine-is-such-a-bad-thing-then-why-not-privatize-the-police-and-fire-departments/#comment-17421 seems i remember reading about the private fire departments in southern california , specificly san diego county. several articles on the homes that were not destroied by the wild fires last summer. if a homeowner could afford private fire protection then they were not burnt out. if i remember right, san diego county was woefully prepared because they just don't have the resouces to fight major fires because of major efforts to privitize the county fire fighting system. who needs a common wealth anyway. if you can't afford it you don't need it. seems i remember reading about the private fire departments in southern california , specificly san diego county. several articles on the homes that were not destroied by the wild fires last summer. if a homeowner could afford private fire protection then they were not burnt out. if i remember right, san diego county was woefully prepared because they just don’t have the resouces to fight major fires because of major efforts to privitize the county fire fighting system. who needs a common wealth anyway. if you can’t afford it you don’t need it.

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