Comments on: Hayden Shows How Not to End the War http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:07:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: hp http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18835 hp Mon, 21 Apr 2008 00:57:09 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18835 There is a law which says it is FORBIDDEN BY LAW for the USA to give foreign aid to ANY nation which possesses nukes and will not permit inspections of said nukes and their facilities. *Except that shitty little country SOMEHOW ignores this along with dozens of UN resolutions and does this and anything else it damn well wishes to do, up to and including the murder of American citizens. Hey, what's a 'special friend' for if it can't rub your nose in it? The #1 most detested nation on earth, dragging us down with it. There is a law which says it is FORBIDDEN BY LAW for the USA to give foreign aid to ANY nation which possesses nukes and will not permit inspections of said nukes and their facilities.
*Except that shitty little country SOMEHOW ignores this along with dozens of UN resolutions and does this and anything else it damn well wishes to do, up to and including the murder of American citizens.
Hey, what’s a ‘special friend’ for if it can’t rub your nose in it?
The #1 most detested nation on earth, dragging us down with it.

]]> By: hp http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18834 hp Mon, 21 Apr 2008 00:48:15 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18834 Iraq invasion and occupation goals: 50% Israel* - plan is and has gone well. Israel's #1 enemy at the time of the invasion and occupation, according to them, is ruined and no longer a threat. 30% oil - utter disaster. Remember 'the oil will pay for the whole shebang,' theory'? A maximum of 200 billion, at most. Can you say trillions? 20% - good old fashioned imperialism.- utter disaster. *As far as Israel is concerned, it's all systems go. As a matter of fact, Bibi just said, a couple of days ago, how much Israel had 'benefited' from 911. Syria, Lebanon and of course the new #1, Iran, are next, if Israel has anything to say about it and I think it's pretty much established that they do. Incidentally, Israel is still buying oil from Iran, on the sly, despite their 'total' boycott, because, hey, they're Israel and that's what they do. They 'get around' their own boycott by having the oil delivered to European ports, where it is then bought by Israelis and imported into Israel by the Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline (which keeps its oil sources secret.) Sounds like another illegal secret they keep in plain sight with no repercussions in the least. Can you say thermo nuclear weapons? Iraq invasion and occupation goals:

50% Israel* – plan is and has gone well. Israel’s #1 enemy at the time of the invasion and occupation, according to them, is ruined and no longer a threat.

30% oil – utter disaster. Remember ‘the oil will pay for the whole shebang,’ theory’? A maximum of 200
billion, at most. Can you say trillions?

20% – good old fashioned imperialism.- utter disaster.

*As far as Israel is concerned, it’s all systems go. As a matter of fact, Bibi just said, a couple of days ago, how much Israel had ‘benefited’ from 911.
Syria, Lebanon and of course the new #1, Iran, are next, if Israel has anything to say about it and I think it’s pretty much established that they do.

Incidentally, Israel is still buying oil from Iran, on the sly, despite their ‘total’ boycott, because, hey, they’re Israel and that’s what they do.
They ‘get around’ their own boycott by having the oil delivered to European ports, where it is then bought by Israelis and imported into Israel by the Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline (which keeps its oil sources secret.)
Sounds like another illegal secret they keep in plain sight with no repercussions in the least. Can you say thermo nuclear weapons?

]]> By: Sam Waite http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18757 Sam Waite Sun, 20 Apr 2008 00:40:15 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18757 My problem with the Walt-Mearsheimer thesis isn't that it's mired in Cold War liberalism, but that it rests basically on a pluralist model of governance. That is, it accepts at face value the idea that the American political process consists of negotiation between various "interest groups". The problem is cast in terms of one "interest group" having disproportionate power. Is there a powerful right-wing Zionist lobby in the U.S.? At some level, yes. But *why* is it powerful? Because it's well-financed and well-connected. And where does it get its finances and connections? At the end of the day, from the U.S. bourgeoisie. Furthermore, the Zionist lobby was hardly the only sector of U.S. society clamoring for war. There were many others, and more vocal ones at that. Therefore, to place the blame for the Iraq War at the feet of this lobby alone is, I think, misguided. My problem with the Walt-Mearsheimer thesis isn’t that it’s mired in Cold War liberalism, but that it rests basically on a pluralist model of governance. That is, it accepts at face value the idea that the American political process consists of negotiation between various “interest groups”. The problem is cast in terms of one “interest group” having disproportionate power.

Is there a powerful right-wing Zionist lobby in the U.S.? At some level, yes. But *why* is it powerful? Because it’s well-financed and well-connected. And where does it get its finances and connections? At the end of the day, from the U.S. bourgeoisie.

Furthermore, the Zionist lobby was hardly the only sector of U.S. society clamoring for war. There were many others, and more vocal ones at that.

Therefore, to place the blame for the Iraq War at the feet of this lobby alone is, I think, misguided.

]]> By: Teri B. http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18755 Teri B. Sat, 19 Apr 2008 23:57:22 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18755 The division in the party isn’t the candidates’ fault - they’re doing what candidates do. It isn’t the voters’ fault - they’re allowed to be divided. Democracy is a good thing, right? Bbut too little in this primary has been about democracy. The DNC has caused it, with not only this FL and MI nightmare, but what Dean is doing right now, in trying to stifle the voices of the remaining voters. The media is doing it, by taking sides, slanting coverage, and focusing almost exclusively on rubbish. And the powerful democratic political action groups and other organizations, like moveon.org, dailykos, democraticundergroud, etc. are doing it, by only furthering the agenda of half the party and spitting in the face of the other half. Folks, remember these are the very people who keep saying this primary is divisive and must be ended! NO, THEY DON’T DECIDE ELECTIONS, WE DO! If we give our power to them, we’ll never get it back! There are 2 reasons why this this extended primary is great for democrats and America: 1) more people are focused on the issues than ever before and paying attention; and 2) The democratic nominee's dirty laundry will sound like old news to the public by the time they start attacking McCain - that's a GOOD thing. Obama can dish it out, but he sure can’t take it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JNq7-aNIiM Listen to Richardson at around 2:00 min. Not to mention Obama’s a hypocrite: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_oil_spill.html She’s been getting hammered at all the debates, and suddenly Obama gets an equal amount of tough questions and the whining is deafening. The division in the party isn’t the candidates’ fault – they’re doing what candidates do. It isn’t the voters’ fault – they’re allowed to be divided. Democracy is a good thing, right? Bbut too little in this primary has been about democracy.

The DNC has caused it, with not only this FL and MI nightmare, but what Dean is doing right now, in trying to stifle the voices of the remaining voters. The media is doing it, by taking sides, slanting coverage, and focusing almost exclusively on rubbish. And the powerful democratic political action groups and other organizations, like moveon.org, dailykos, democraticundergroud, etc. are doing it, by only furthering the agenda of half the party and spitting in the face of the other half. Folks, remember these are the very people who keep saying this primary is divisive and must be ended! NO, THEY DON’T DECIDE ELECTIONS, WE DO! If we give our power to them, we’ll never get it back!
There are 2 reasons why this this extended primary is great for democrats and America: 1) more people are focused on the issues than ever before and paying attention; and 2) The democratic nominee’s dirty laundry will sound like old news to the public by the time they start attacking McCain – that’s a GOOD thing.

Obama can dish it out, but he sure can’t take it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JNq7-aNIiM

Listen to Richardson at around 2:00 min.

Not to mention Obama’s a hypocrite: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_oil_spill.html

She’s been getting hammered at all the debates, and suddenly Obama gets an equal amount of tough questions and the whining is deafening.

]]> By: hp http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18750 hp Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:10:52 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18750 But, but, but, he was so... so..... contrite.. dan e, I agree. But, but, but, he was so… so….. contrite..
dan e, I agree.

]]> By: dan e http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18737 dan e Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:15:26 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18737 HP, yes but he only went halfway, still supports all the JVP/Zunes/Chomsky nonsense about the Two-State Illusion, besides the nonsense he keeps spouting re Iraq "war" etc. The dude's still One a Them, a foe not a friend. a Pretend Progressive misleader. Only suckers buy his bs. HP,
yes but he only went halfway, still supports all the JVP/Zunes/Chomsky nonsense about the Two-State Illusion, besides the nonsense he keeps spouting re Iraq “war” etc.

The dude’s still One a Them, a foe not a friend. a Pretend Progressive misleader. Only suckers buy his bs.

]]> By: bozhidar balkas http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18673 bozhidar balkas Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:53:05 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18673 now that we have zionists and america, i'm nostalgic for fascism. asfar as i canmake out there is not much difference beteen democrats and republicans whenit comes to expansionby all means. Hiroshima and nagasaki prove (not show, but prove) that the US ruling class will stop at nothing in order to obtain the planet and d estroy all socialisms. and chines socialism with special glee. Iraq thus became the seconf stepping stone to all of asia; the first being israel, the 52nd state of 'rica. thank u. now that we have zionists and america, i’m nostalgic for fascism.
asfar as i canmake out there is not much difference beteen democrats and republicans whenit comes to expansionby all means. Hiroshima and nagasaki prove (not show, but prove) that the US ruling class will stop at nothing in order to obtain the planet and d estroy all socialisms.
and chines socialism with special glee.
Iraq thus became the seconf stepping stone to all of asia; the first being israel, the 52nd state of ‘rica. thank u.

]]> By: hp http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18672 hp Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:27:44 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18672 Hmm, I also remember Mr. Hayden apologizing ("I was Israeli's dupe") for being 'fooled' by AIPAC and Israel in general. Hmm, I also remember Mr. Hayden apologizing (“I was Israeli’s dupe”) for being ‘fooled’ by AIPAC and Israel in general.

]]> By: hp http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18653 hp Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:35:41 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18653 For a lesson in real live time, simply see how Carter is being 'handled' as we speak. For a lesson in real live time, simply see how Carter is being ‘handled’ as we speak.

]]> By: dan e http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18610 dan e Fri, 18 Apr 2008 03:23:53 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/04/hayden-shows-how-not-to-end-the-war/#comment-18610 very much agree re tom h's jive; btw wonder if Cindy Sheehan still considers him a pal? Okay, I was pretty rude the way I tried to pull her coat to the "fourflusher" as folks usta say back in Great Falls, but some times you have to put Integrity before Decorum. However I was disapptd to see the writer lapse into a variation of the "War For Oil" mythology, which comes straight from Tel Aviv via N Podhoretz & Midge Decter. Continues to amaze me how many "progressives" (I'm not one BTW, I'm a Radical Reconstructionist:) how many Peasnicks continue to ignore Walt/Mearsheimer like it never happened. Yes, for all their highly professional scholarship, W/M are trapped in a "Coldwar Liberal" paradigm, but Jas Petras has covered much the same ground, as has Jeff Blankfort -- and few are more outspokenly anti-Imperialist than they. May I recommend to this writer an investigation of PNAC will expose a minimal involvement by interests deriving share of distributed Surplus Value from petroleum sales? This whole "War Of Terror" against these Islamic neighbors of "Eretz Yisroel" has been a longterm project of the Zionist Power Configuration, to use Petras' term. Lenni Brenner was more candid: he spoke of Jews In America Today, as well as of 51 Instances of Nazi-Zionist Collaboration. No substitute for doing our homework, is there? No rest for the wicked:) Well, Mr Waite has made a good start, lets see if he can take the next step & REALLY become relevant:) very much agree re tom h’s jive; btw wonder if Cindy Sheehan still considers him a pal? Okay, I was pretty rude the way I tried to pull her coat to the “fourflusher” as folks usta say back in Great Falls, but some times you have to put Integrity before Decorum.

However I was disapptd to see the writer lapse into a variation of the “War For Oil” mythology, which comes straight from Tel Aviv via N Podhoretz & Midge Decter. Continues to amaze me how many “progressives” (I’m not one BTW, I’m a Radical Reconstructionist:) how many Peasnicks continue to ignore Walt/Mearsheimer like it never happened.

Yes, for all their highly professional scholarship, W/M are trapped in a “Coldwar Liberal” paradigm, but Jas Petras has covered much the same ground, as has Jeff Blankfort — and few are more outspokenly anti-Imperialist than they.

May I recommend to this writer an investigation of PNAC will expose a minimal involvement by interests deriving share of distributed Surplus Value from petroleum sales? This whole “War Of Terror” against these Islamic neighbors of “Eretz Yisroel” has been a longterm project of the Zionist Power Configuration, to use Petras’ term. Lenni Brenner was more candid: he spoke of Jews In America Today, as well as of 51 Instances of Nazi-Zionist Collaboration.

No substitute for doing our homework, is there? No rest for the wicked:) Well, Mr Waite has made a good start, lets see if he can take the next step & REALLY become relevant:)

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