We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not…You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world.”

(Israel’s first President Chaim Weizmann, Published in “Judische Rundschau,” No. 4, 1920)

We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only question is whether that government will be achieved by conquest or consent.” (Jewish Banker Paul Warburg, February 17, 1950, as he testified before the U.S. Senate).

The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war.” Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha’aretz, 19 March 1972.

When talking to people about dismantling Zionism, a secular ideology in its radical militant phase, one must differentiated the difference between Judaism, Israel, and Zionism which have been erroneously conflated in the mind of most people. During the 1930’s, there was a similar conflation between Christianity, Germany, and Nazism where most of European countries where ‘Nazi Occupied Governments’ (NOGS). Zionism according to many Rabbis (YouTube this) is diametrically opposed to the peaceful religion of Judaism. Similarly, all nation-states are “military protectorates’ and at best are abstract ideas, one can dismantle any country say Bolivia, USSR, USA or Israel without harming concrete things such as a single person or the land (‘Haartez’ in Hebrew).

Dismantling of Zionism now in its radical phase (which has not been challenged in the USA) is similar to dismantling Nazism as they are similar in nature as are all ultra-nationalistic movements (i.e. secularly ‘isms’). Right, are you with me here? All of these secular ideologies (”isms”) have the same goal – world domination. If you are a student of the rise and fall of Empires (e.g. Edward Gibbon’s book
‘Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire’) or have ever played the historical simulation games of ‘Risk’ or ‘Civilization’, you would understand what I mean by ideologies seeking world domination. After all, the world is a big ‘Chess’ game for the powerful elitists, and we are their pawns.

Now as I remember, Nazism didn’t end well for the German people nor did Japanese Imperialism end well for the Japanese people. Do you want us – Zionist influenced USA & Israel – to meet a similar fate as WW2 Germany and Japan?

Please also see my prior post regarding finding Zionism’s fuel.

I think the onion has many more layers than you would allow. The American Empire is not a Zionist Empire. Let’s be clear. As far as tails wagging dogs, that implies simple causality which really doesn’t exist except under the most limited circumstances which is contrived and has no basis in the real world – modern science does not proceed that way. No, it is not a tail wagging the dog, it appears to be much more incestuous and complex than that.

Your litany and dot connecting is certainly worthy of scrutiny, but that tree and its branches can lead to many, many other dots and connections that completely obfiscate your position. Just a for instance, take the global corporate fiefdoms. Are these merely the playthings of Israeli Zionism?

If you see what I’m saying as clouding your point and making your point less persuasive, than you begin to rail about my blindness or lack of understanding. Thinking through as best we can about these matters rather than succumbing to one narrative and making it explain all is not due to a lack of understanding (nor disagreement, at least in large part).

Max

To do otherwise is to tarnish the image of, and bring into question, the integrity of this very important newsletter.

You apparently do not have a problem with this. I do.

PS… This Mickey Z guy is a gatekeeper. It’s disgusting and disheartening to see good intentioned intelligent people fawn over this creep as he spreads his disinformation.
Isn’t it obvious what that “Z” stands for?
It should be.
Happy Trails, y’all.

Other than Jaime, most DVers pretty much agree on the horror in Gaza and who’s doing who. Your responses seem to indicate that you don’t get that or that me (and others) are not loud enough, not fervant enough, aren’t consumed enough….

Cook has made a pretty interesting case for one state. I’ve tried here and there to speak to that, but you seem to insist that we need to see that this monster requires….well you never quite get to that and so you want to beat the Zionist monster with one word after another as if you’ve accomplished something.

To be consumed by one evil (Zionism) to the neglect of the rest of the universe would appear to be demanding one truth – Zionism (see where I’m going, a kind of Borgesian tale). All of this becomes the inverse of Jaime’s case – one demonizes Palestinians, the other Israelis. It’s as if I/P exists in a parallel universe with strings to the USA and an audience of spectators yelling this way and that without any control over events.

Alternatively, Cook provides a solution that is worth understanding.

Michael Chertoff – Head of Homeland Security
Michael Mukasey – US Attorney General
Richard Perle – Iraq war architect
Paul Wolfowitz – Iraq war architect
Douglas Feith – Iraq war architect
Jonathan Pollard – Spy and traitor
Ariel Weinmann – -Spy and traitor
Larry Franklin – Spy and traitor
Henry Kissinger – war criminal – chairman on 911 investigating committee
Dov Zakheim – Council on foreign relations and Pentagon comptroller when pentagon had over 2 TRILLION dollars go missing and unaccounted for. Money has never been found!!!!!!!.
Edward Luttwak – Member National Security study group of department of defense at the pentagon.
Kenneth Adelman – Advisor, Pentagon’s defense policy board
Scooter Libby – Dick Chaney’s ex-chief of staff
Robert Satloff – National security council advisor
Elliott Abrams – National security council advisor
Marc Grossman – Under secretary of state for political affairs
Richard Haass – Director of policy planning at the state department
Robert Zoellick – US trade representative – cabinet level
Ari Fleischer – White house spokesman for Bush
James Schlesinger – Pentagon defense policy board
David Frum – White house speech writer
Joshua Bolten – White house deputy chief of staff
John Bolton – Senior advisor to Bush
David Wurmser – special assistant to Bolton (above)
Eliot Cohen – Pentagon defense policy board
Mel Sembler – President import-export bank of the USA
Steve Goldsmith – Senior advisor to Bush
Mark Weinberger – Assistant secretary HUD
Samuel Bodman – Deputy secretary of commerce
Bonnie Cohen – Under secretary of state for management
Ruth Davis – Director of foreign service institute
Cliff Sobel – Ambassador to Netherlands
Stuart Bernstein – Ambassador to Denmark
Nancy Brinker – Ambassador to Hungary
Frank Lavin – Ambassador to Singapore
Ron Weiser – Ambassador to Slovakia
Mel Sembler – ambassador to Italy
Mark Silverstein – Ambassador to Uruguay

This is just a little taste…

Just for fun, here’s a few fine “Americans” who have our best interests at heart. Yours and mine.
Each and every one of these fine “Americans” are
ZIONIST DUAL CITIZEN ISRAELIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michael Chertoff – Head of Homeland Security
Michael Mukasey – US Attorney General
Richard Perle – Iraq war architect
Paul Wolfowitz – Iraq war architect
Douglas Feith – Iraq war architect
Jonathan Pollard – Spy and traitor
Ariel Weinmann – -Spy and traitor
Larry Franklin – Spy and traitor
Henry Kissinger – war criminal and chairman on 911 investigating committee
Dov Zakheim – Council on foreign relations and Pentagon comptroller when pentagon had over 2 TRILLION dollars go missing and unaccounted for. Money has never been found..
Edward Luttwak – Member National Security study group of department of defense at the pentagon.
Kenneth Adelman – Advisor, Pentagon’s defense policy board
Scooter Libby – Dick Chaney’s chief of staff
Robert Satloff – National security council advisor
Elliott Abrams – National security advisor
Marc Grossman – Under secretary of state for political affairs
Richard Haass – Director of policy planning at the state department
Robert Zoellick – US trade representative -

Just for fun, here’s a few fine “Americans” who have our best interests at heart. Yours and mine.
Each and every one of these fine “Americans” are
DUAL CITIZEN ISRAELIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michael Chertoff – Head of Homeland Security
Michael Mukasey – US Attorney General
Richard Perle – Iraq war architect
Paul Wolfowitz – Iraq war architect

In other words to defeat Zionism in the U.S. it must be confronted as a RACIST ideology because the U.S. does have a history of confronting racism. It is this history that must be renewed. Once the discourse becomes that Zionism equal racism then Americans will better understand how to confront it.

I understand your point. But I am still against forbidding anyone posting here. The lies and false accusations jaime dishes out are clear enough and speak by themselves. In this respect I do not believe jaime’s accusations and general bollocks-speak need much debunking. I was talking in general terms.

On the discussion of Israel-tail wagging the USA-dog: My personal view is that USA calls the shots but the shots it calls are being stirred towards ziofriendly interests. From 911 “the lobby” has been working overtime in a propaganda campaign aimed to ensure USA identifies the Islam as the enemy. Once it has been succesfull in that it does not need to “micromanage” USA’s forgein policy; USA will do Israel bid “spontaneouly”, out of its “own volition”.
However this does not absolve the non-zionist elite of blame. They follow this path willingly cause they believe is in their interest. Too often I see americans in places like this one blaming “the zionists” of USA’s imerial crimes. It looks to me an exercise in shiting blame that is kinda pathetic.

“There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.”
Henry David Thoreau

Second that!

Now, on ward…dan e ,
While I appreciate your in depth knowledge of Zionist ideology, I don’t think it’s necessary to have that understanding to take on the balant and all too common nationalism that drives Israel. It is clear and the results are horrifically clear.

I do think that such ideology is a “luxury” which is about to collapse under the tidal wave of an unsustainable world-wide global economic collapse coupled with the points that Cook makes. Zionism and the state of Israel will pass – and soon. It will happen under a combination of it’s own seeds of destruction and the collapse of the US empire.

So, while I applaud your studied knowledge of the historical underpinnings of Zionism, I don’t think it will be much more than just that – a historical artifact.

The pain that many of us seem to share here on DV is the continued massive killing of Palestinians. There is a impotence in that pain that leads us to want to drive a stake in the heart of Israeli Zionism. I appreciate it, but I have yet to find a practical value in it.

I would suggest that once an individual’s character is being smeared, once outright lies are being posted, once obvious attempts are being made to derail any meaningful discussion, then the person behaving in this manner ought to be removed.

Jaime’s comments are doing absolutely nothing to further the cause of the stated goals of Dissident Voice.

Should Jaime continue on in this fashion with his continual demonization of Mr. Petersen’s character, snide inneundo with respect to myself and other posters, I will simply say, okay, I’ve had enough and move elsewhere to post my opinions.

Time wasted debunking accusations from Jaime is time that could be better spent reading legitimate comments from posters who are genuinely attempting to make valid points about DV’s top rate articles.

These articles are often ignored as posters hasten to deal with lies, insinuations, and the open support of Israeli terrorism which Jaime gleefully brings to DV’s comment section. He is, in fact, a huge success in diverting attention from the topics under discussion.

Perhaps guidelines could be put in place with respect to posting comments at DV so as to ensure that posters are aware of what they can, and cannot, post. Lies, character assassination, disinformation, propaganda, threats, and the like have no place in any newsletter, be it DV or any other.

Certainly this ongoing garbage from Jaime is not what legimitate posters wish to deal with every time we read an article in DV.

“… I know many readers will have concluded that I’m overly bloodthirsty…. I’m not calling for the death of any human individual or group of individuals….”

————–

You’re kidding…right?