This astounds me! I’m not sure why it bothers you. What do you care? If there is no God…and we evolved from whatever it is that we came from, why don’t you live and let live?

Why should it trouble you that I am one who trusts in a God that you are numb to…a God who exists only in my mind and in the pages of some old texts…a God who said that I must declare His news to the world, the God who says that you now have minds that are incapable of finding Him because you have denied the evidence of nature that is not found in a laboratory but happens to have been programmed into your consciousness from your nativity, a God who teaches that you will have to give an account to His Son someday?

Why shouldn’t you let me go ahead and live by the morality and the light that I have? Why insist on converting everyone to your way of thinking?

I read a quote from Lee: “Creationists know their a priori conclusions in advance, independent of any scientific inquiry. They then massage their superficially scientific assertions to justfy their desired answers to match their religious doctrine. The circularity and philosophical bankruptcy of this perspective is obvious.”

– Lee Salisbury, Essayist,
Axis Columnist, Founder of
the Critical Thinking Clubs &
Former Christian Minister

Where he has placed the word, “creationists”, you can easily place the word, “atheists”. We are all the same…you and me…that is what your science teaches and thus my motives and your’s are the same because of that survival thing…you are trying to survive something and reap some kind of reward from it and so am I. This is the survival of the fittest and it seems that the most fit throughout history have been those who have believed in a designer and the atheists are just the late comer, new kids on the block and it is not we who will bring you to nothing, but your own lack of ability to use reason.

You use uncommon language to conceal your ignorance. You obfuscate by use of pseudo scientific lingo to hide the fact that you have shut your own minds down by your own priori conclusions.

As to the golden rule: Jesus said, “Do unto others…” All other quotes that I have heard from human philosophy teach, “Don’t do unto others…” Big difference! You have to do something if you believe in Christ. You don’t have to do anything if you are an atheist or Buddhist or whatever.

Brian Juntunen

I suspect that the reason atheists are hated so much by theists is because we directly threaten their belief system. Imagine basing your whole life on a particular belief system. If the possibility was ever raised that your it was invalid, it would result in a tremendous sense of loss, grief and anger. So rather than confront those feelings in one’s self, it’s easier to direct them at the people who raised the doubts: “If you’re right, then I’ve been living a lie my whole life, so you can’t be right”.

That is to say, if there is a God, and He allows all the suffering, pestilence, pain, and sorrow to permeate the Earth as it does, and has the power, as they say, to put an end to it but does not – I want nothing to do with such a monster anyway.

Hell does it exist. We are all living it right now.

Now, let’s apply that principle to Christians. As a group, Christians puport to believe that non-Chirstians are heathens, lack the gift of grace, are sinners, are fallen, defy the word of God, are immoral and will be damned to suffer the torments and tortures of hell for all of eternity.

Now, if that is the Christian position of those who are non-Christians, then it would follow that Christians would be among the most despised of all groups in the U.S., and Christians would be among the least likely persons for whom Americans would vote.

I mean, ask yourself: which is worse; being called stupid? or being called immoral and damned to suffer torment and torture in hell for all of eternity?

Go giggle into your own shirt-pocket.

I say this as a European atheist of course, one who finds most Americans very open minded and warm. I think polls like this, in postulating an A / vs / Not-A response bring out the fuzziest answers and don’t really capture any of the US’s nuance about such ideas. True, I speak now about the people-who-live-on-the-coasts but i’m guessing it’s their wealth that’s driving the nation forward etc.

On a separate point it may well be that once we’re a good 200 years into this wonderful war on terror we’re all having that the idea of being a religious maniac might begin to pall, rather. One can only hope.

Now, one problem arises when those poetic metaphors become hardened into dogmatic presumption. A big problem. Because I think we are fundamentally insecure beings, who express wonder and awe at the largeness of our universe and the smallness of our lives in comparison, once we have found “an answer”, it undermines our confidence in that answer when others don´t share it. I believe this is the source of the mischief and outright murderous frenzy that propels those with tightly retained views to oppress others who don´t share them. the presence of a “non-believer” amongst those people is a grave threat to those who use such beliefs to exercise control over others, in this case, using the hierarchy of metaphors to deny others an appeal. So the priestly classes clinig too tightly to their metaphors in an excuse to exercise what they otherwise would pursue anyway: domination over others. In this case, with “religion” as their trump card, thet win since the belief that they are possessed of an inside track , so to speak, grants them some immunity.

But if we accept wonder and awe, meaning and poetry as just as human as science and knowledge, surety and firmness, then we can acknowledge that ultimately, we are all agnostics who need each other for support (the human, not supernatural, origins of morality and ethics,) and yet some of us require “more” in the form of poetic imagery and anthropomorphised metaphors.

Without the notions of surety in religion, we of course would have all benefitted by the non-existence of innumerable slaughters and tortures in the name of religion. But we would also be without Bach or Beethoven, Mozart or Angkor Wat, Kinkakuji or the Acropolis, or a million other expressions of the human desire to express a relationship to that which they cannot “know” but which they can “feel”.

The problem is those for whom such wonder implies exclusivity, and an excuse to dominate others.
At least that´s how I see it…
Best,
José

I will never refute your contention that many so-called “atheists” are teenagers running around with the guise of non-conformity with the mission of trying to offend and insult as many people as possible.

I just wanted to tell you that we are not ALL like that, which is why generalizations are never good. The atheists I personally know are typically respectful of all people, including those who happen to believe in religions – our chosen lifestyle just happens to be without it, that doesn’t mean we actively try to burn it down and stick up our middle finger every time we drive by a church.

Why don’t they talk about the bigotry and intolerance, which are the halmark of religion, instead of the so-called “morality” which is just a set of common sense rules for living in a human society, nothing to do with religion.

And by religion, of course, they mean just the Christian religion, all the others are faulty. This country is run by the christian Taliban. This is so-called freedom, just don’t use your brain for thinking and then you’ll be free.

Small minds need God to fill their empty lives — no need to agitate for yourself in this life, to be the best you can be, when you’ll be rewarded later, much later. Those on top know it’s all a scam, otherwise why aren’t they following this “morality” that religion supposedly prescribes? (“Morality” when it suits them, just look at all the blood through history enumerated above, and all the other hypocrisy).

So all atheists are jerks? Every single one? I am glad to know that I am a jerk because every single human who has similar beliefs to mine is a jerk. I didn’t know that was how one became a jerk. Thanks for the education.

I’m probably a jerk for not knowing and pointing out I didn’t know.