Comments on: Innocent Flesh—Recruiting Kids to Kill

By: ron

ron — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 17:49:22 +0000

franz,
your last post has me a little concerned that you are armed and in the military. You sound overly paranoid. No wonder you like being able to shoot your gun.

By: franz ferdinand

franz ferdinand — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 17:01:49 +0000

tell me why you don’t run for public office and change things… Why is this not front page news, why is Ron Paul doing so weak in the poles? Look just support your troops, you may need them one day. Many of us know we have the moral fortitude to take the situation at hand and make it right, no matter what the people back home think. I know about the mujahadin, but remember even if your vegan, peace-loving, conservative, liberal or qaudrapaligeic, ther is still a drugged up suicidal terrorist that wants to kill you, even if you write this blog, he’s still waould like nothing more than to see even you dead and your community burned because you are American and that is the truth

By: ron

ron — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 00:20:45 +0000

franz,
open your mind and shut your mouth for a freaking minute. I am probably more than twice as old as you and have seen more than you–but be that as it may…. The facts are there for anyone who wants to look at them. Iraq had one of the highest standards of living and one of the best educated populations (men and women) in the Middle East until the US bombed the hell out of it in 1991. That doesn’t mean I think Hussein was good–he wasn’t. BUT GUESS WHAT! Neither is George Bush! The terrorists who attacked on 911/2001 were from Saudi Arabia NOT IRAQ! I support them less than I support the US in Iraq and Afghanistan. (Which menas I DON”T SUPPORT THE TERRORISTS OR THE US MILITARY IN IRAQ OR AFGHANISTAN). The women in Afghanistan were (and are)oppressed under the Taliban (and the current government), but were allowed to get an education BEFORE the US armed and trained the Mujahedin (who became the Taliban) in order to defeat the Soviet friendly government in Kabul. LIke I said before, you need to question the stuff you have believed –the US government is the best liar in the world–some day you may figure that out. Talk to a Vietnam vet who didn’t like what he did in Vietnam–There’s thousands of them…

By: franz ferdinand

franz ferdinand — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:28:25 +0000

You finally proved my point, you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. THE WOMAN HAVE NO RIGHT< AND NEVER HAVE. I never killed an innocent, what do u think of the terrorist who bombed us? I bet you support them. Your a nutcase and I’m glad that your so nieve, it makes me feel alive knowing that someone out there is so backwards and wrong. I am glad I can defend your radical thoughts!!!!

By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:21:45 +0000

Mr Corylus,

You failed to address the issues you brought up before earlier. You said “Furthermore, the president and the Congress are not voted upon by the people, as this nation has never fulfilled the necessary qualifications of “democracy.” Specifically how is this nation lacking when it comes to the qualifications of democracy? You also allude to the fact that the people do not vote in elections for the President or Congress because your undefined definition of democracy is not being met. Explain this in more detail.

Secondly, you called the fact that if the military does not recruit then the draft would be the other means of staffing the military a fallacy. What exactly would be the solution to staff the military if you don’t use the draft or you don’t use recruiting?

You also said, “I suspect that many people in the military just can’t stand that some of us have seen through the completely immoral and unjust nature of the partnerships of fascism” This statement would mean that “many” people in the military actually know and believe that this country’s government is fascist and that these members of the military (which you said were many) are upset and “can’t stand” that some citizens of this nation also know this. So you think that this is a conspiracy and that many in the military are in on it?

By: corylus

corylus — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:09:36 +0000

Jeremy,
As I suggested, only this time I’ll be more clear: you need to cut some holes in the box you live in. Some of us have an entirely different perspective from yours on the nature of the U. S. government, its role in global politics, and its intrusion into our lives and our desire to live in peace with other human beings. Militarism hasn’t provided me anything I really need to live a happy and fulfilling life. You have been completely deluded by the American myth that only our nation knows how to provide for the peace and prosperity of its people.

I’m not going anywhere, and I am going to continue to work — as I do every day at my job and in my community — to build an American society that doesn’t require bludgeoning other people for material gain, and that means shifting the dominant U. S. governmental paradigm away from corporate-sponsored militarism, otherwise known as fascism.

By: ron

ron — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:18:07 +0000

franz,
your comments exhibit the extent that you have swallowed your boss’s line. The occupation of Iraq is not WW II. The fact that nayone has died in a war that should never have been fought is much more the story than the fact that only 10 airmen or 3950 soldiers and marines have dies. As for the Iraqis–you may be convinced that you never killed innocent people, but how do you really know. As for the US military–they have killed thousands of innocents no matter how you spin it.
The women in Iraq? They were among the best educated and least oppressed by religious elements of any women in the Middle East while the Baathists ran the country. The oppression you refer to is the result of the US invasion and occupation–they HAD RIGHTS before that! The presence of the US military in that country has nothing to do with freedom for the Iraqi women, men or children. It has to do with the US corporate desire to dominate the remaining petroleum resources in the region for the foreseeable future. Even Dick Cheney–your second-in-command– would tell you that. So, turn off your Pentagon propaganda machine and open your eyes….you might find out that your war isn’t as great as you think it is…

By: franz ferdinand

franz ferdinand — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:28:35 +0000

Dude,
I joined when I was 17. The real world is all around you. There will be no utopia, no peace forever, and there will always be war. Some cannot tolerate what they had to do, and now they are aginst the military. Propaganda, come on man. Are you that sheltered? Would you rather have the children grow up and be lame ducks? Tell me how many men in the navy or air force have benn in direct enemy combat… Tell me how many airmen have perished! Maybe 10 at the most in the war. How many men died on d-day. Would you have sat idly during the holocost and pleaded with hitler to stop killing the jews for peace? There are two people in this world sheep and sheep dogs. Someone has to do as there ordered. More inner city kids have died from meth and heroin in the last year than have in Iraq. Also re look up your stats on the Marine side of the house, our standards have actually gone up, a lot. If I die my family knows it was my choice. I was raised to be responsible so at 17 I knew what I was doing, and at 24 I still do. I am just glad to know that in my unit I led my troops successfully and help the people there. We never killed innocent people, never once did we ever protrude on the people there, we only established law and order. Tell a Iraqi woman to take her vail off in downtown little iraqi town or for her to open her own buissness. THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS! So evn for that reason maybe helping women gain freedom, or to not have a tyrant rule a country, don’t even say sadaam wasn’t, It is worth us being over there. AT LEAST TO THE ALL_VOLUNTEER FORCE IT IS>

By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:07:34 +0000

Mr. Corylus, you say the people do not vote our elected officials into power? So what exactly am I doing when I go and vote every year? Yes, without a recruiting force you would have no military unless you conscripted people via a draft. The only other alternative to those two options is to not have a military. The military is going to expand and shrink naturally over time and with the needs of the country, but it will never be able to be filled with qualified personnel unless you either recruit them or force them into the military. Which option do you prefer?

Keep in mind that recruiters work crazy long hours and do their best to find young men and women who are genuinely interested in serving their country. We aren’t some weirdos hanging out at baseball games oogling little kids with dreams of world domination dancing in our heads. We are your neighbors and fellow citizens trying their best to do a demanding job that our service has asked us to do. Unlike the civilian world, we don’t have the luxury to say I don’t feel like doing this or that in the military. We agreed to serve in whatever capacity the country saw as best and you won’t hear the sniveling and whining with little or no action like you do elsewhere in this world.

For right or wrong in your opinion, the military does it’s best to be trained and prepared for any contigency the country may need us for. YOUR President and Congress decides what to do with us, and this country elected them. If you don’t like the “democracy” of this country then run for office and start changing it or go somewhere else.

By: ron

ron — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:25:00 +0000

franz,
so is this the way you ignore things you don’t want to hear–by calling the sources frauds and fakes? How do we know you’re a real vet and not some rightwing loonie? My conversations and work with vets from Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam have provided me with viewpoints quite different from yours. They wish they hadn’t gone and done the things they did. They did arrest young teenagers and take them away.
As for those recruiters at the game, their presence in uniform was propaganda enough–and you know it. The gist of my article is not that those two recruiters were spreading propaganda all by themselves –the gist is that the military and its ethos is pervasive throughout our society–from kids video games to the very real fact that recruiters have access to our schools, our telephones and school records. If people really thought the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were so great, would the government have to spend the billions it does to sell military service to teenagers? If people really thought those wars were so great, would the military now be accepting teenagers who failed to meet its standards only 18 months ago? Just because the military doesn’t shop out the tongues of its captives doesn’t make it something good. Its current job is to occupy and remake countries that it has not business being in and it has killed tens of thousands of those country’s people trying to accomplish that goal. Dead people’s relatives don’t care how their family members were killed or if they have tongues.

By: corylus

corylus — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 02:45:20 +0000

Jeremy,
Man, are you ever brainwashed. Just two point of yours to illustrate your extremely narrow framing of the recruiting issue: “if you are not in favor of recruiting then it means you are in favor of the draft.” Then you qualify this fallacy with another: “If you are not in favor of the military then that is your opinion, just remember that the military is run by civilians and those civilians are appointed by a president and voted on by congress, all of which are elected officials.”

Some of us share a vision of this nation that is not dominated by corporations and a fascist government, and a world not dominated by rampant militarism largely driven by U. S.-backed imperialism, interference with sovereign governments, weapons sales, and corporate-molded “diplomacy.” Furthermore, the president and the Congress are not voted upon by the people, as this nation has never fulfilled the necessary qualifications of “democracy.” The simple fact is that none of the corporate-appointed, so-called representatives of our fascist oligarchy would ever think about altering the status quo that provides their bread and butter. You are merely a willing participant in their murderous games. I suspect that many people in the military just can’t stand that some of us have seen through the completely immoral and unjust nature of the partnerships of fascism, yet continue to be deluded and attack those of us with alternative perspectives because they simply can’t think for themselves.

By: franz ferdinand

franz ferdinand — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:30:38 +0000

Hey guess what.
I smell a few anti-war protesters from vietnam (era) a liberal left person and a fake iraqi man, and some patriots. If you do not like America leave. Please. I believe in freedom of speech. The men I fought with in Iraq all wanted to be there, so did everyone I met. Also we cannot take a 15 year old kid and send him to jail, and we inform the families where the suspect is going. Now before we apprehend we need evidence too. Also if the recruiter was at the game he wasn’t spreading propaganda. Come on now. This whole article reeks of lies and left wing radical bullcrap. Be real and realize that we don’t gas our people, we don’t chop of the tounges of those who bad mouth us and the Iraqi people, regardless of what you think needed us to allow them democracy. Next time you see a Marine, Vietnam Veteran ask him if he is a murderer. Tell him to his face what you think. Or be a coward and keep complaing here….

By: Lloyd Rowsey

Lloyd Rowsey — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:39:06 +0000

What I find interesting is that the military is not sworn to follow the orders of the Commander-in-Chief, but instead to uphold the Constitution of the United States. And since the constitution of this country incorporates international law, what Cheapmeat Detector suggests is actully THE DUTY of the military. Not to mention (I love THAT phrase) the military’s duty to protect their fellow combatants.

By: Lloyd Rowsey

Lloyd Rowsey — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:35:12 +0000

Cheapmeat. Have you heard of the upcoming “Winter Soldier”: Iraq and Afghanistan” event in Washington DC?

And brave Marines…I am not a member of IVAW, just a supporter.

By: Lloyd Rowsey

Lloyd Rowsey — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:59:04 +0000

Hey, brave Marines. What do you think about the courage of Iraq Veterans Against the War members?

By: ron

ron — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:54:14 +0000

Jeremy,
Thanks for the reasoned response. I know you may find it hard to believe that some of your fellow recruiters were at the ball game in uniform and talking with the kids. I, too, was surprised, but the fact is they were. As for the comparison to the Iraqi insurgency and the supposed videos–try looking at it from an Iraqi perspective—you are a civilian kid or woman and the GIs/Marines break into your home in the middle of the night. They tear up your house, take your brothers/sons (who may only be fifteen or younger) and your father/husband outside and arrest him. Six months later you still don’t know where they are, even though you know they were not part of the insurgency. In fact, they just want peace. If I were that kid or woman I would consider what happen to the males in my family to be kidnapping. And I would consider the US forces the kidnappers.

By: Cheapmeat Detector

Cheapmeat Detector — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:49:28 +0000

If there indeed was a “world’s finest marine,” then said person would be invading Washington DC to dismantle the unconstitutional Patriot Act, arrest Bush and Cheney for their illegal wars, unconstitutional signing statements, and policies of torture that will ensure your fellow marines are waterboarded and worse should the ever be captured by your victims.

You, sir, are merely a tool of the empire.

By: maha

maha — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:36:52 +0000

Worldsfinest, fyi I am from Iraq and know many people still there suffering at the hands of psycopathic mercenary soldiers (such as yourself?) who cannot seem to get enough of humiliating, attacking and destroying that country and its people.
And, Alex, “on the same side”? No. Soldiers are the tools of the profiteers — no one forced them to join and to go and kill innocent people in a foreign country. The soldiers are the problem.

By: Alex

Alex — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 02:51:08 +0000

This article and the related comments remind me of a very funny South Park episode where Cartman joke about how this country needs ‘both’:

The Protesters/Free Speech so the Armed Forces, or really the war profiteers who are the heart of the problem, doesn’t step out-of-line and the American people can say we didn’t mean for that bad stuff to happen.

AND

The Armed Forces since the protesters will not be of any use when the ‘other’ invades us.

WORLDSFINESTMARINE and the ‘protesters’ are on the different side of the EXACT same coin. The problems for ‘both’ camps are the war profiteers getting richer at everyone’s expense.

By: AnotherMarine

AnotherMarine — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:02:46 +0000

Seven, stay in what I call the “educational bubble”. Keep your head safely in the sand. And when you “the sheep” are screaming for help, understand that the watch dog will be there, day or night. We will never rest ensuring that your ignorant head is safe…………Enjoy your freedoms!