Comments on: Crusade of Surge and Siege http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:43:46 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Julie Boton http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-18107 Julie Boton Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:36:07 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-18107 You make some interesting points in beautiful, flowing prose. But, all is not as dark as you say. There are plenty of people in our country who are working to drag us back from the abyss. That said, the clock is ticking. And all of us clicking away on our computers think we are "protesting." The empire cares not what we type away here online, hard as that is to accept. They care about bottom line realities. The most disturbing today? Even after extensive publication of Walmart's attempt to sue their brain-damaged employee for the costs of her healthcare -- lookee ma, Walmart profits are UP with the economy going down. Until we all GET IT that you vote with your pocket book, the dark days ahead loom larger and larger. Cut off the complicit, sheeplike financial support for evil the empire will find that we, the people, are once again the "deciders." You make some interesting points in beautiful, flowing prose. But, all is not as dark as you say. There are plenty of people in our country who are working to drag us back from the abyss. That said, the clock is ticking. And all of us clicking away on our computers think we are “protesting.” The empire cares not what we type away here online, hard as that is to accept. They care about bottom line realities. The most disturbing today? Even after extensive publication of Walmart’s attempt to sue their brain-damaged employee for the costs of her healthcare — lookee ma, Walmart profits are UP with the economy going down. Until we all GET IT that you vote with your pocket book, the dark days ahead loom larger and larger. Cut off the complicit, sheeplike financial support for evil the empire will find that we, the people, are once again the “deciders.”

]]> By: Adam Ash http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-15054 Adam Ash Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:21:20 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-15054 This article gets a few things right, and a few things wrong. What's right is that our Empire is doing terrible things overseas, killing thousands of innocents, as it has done for over a 100 years. Yet today the majority of Americans want out of Iraq. They may be victims of our elite, but they are not entirely blind and deaf. America is full of people like Ralph Nader and Noam Chomsky and Barack Obama and Noami Klein and Samantha Powers who speak of a side of America that is anti-fascist and whose various commentaries are, I suggest, more clear-eyed than Manuel's. It may be dusk in Amerika, Manuel, but it is by no means midnight. Yet. And in 2009 we may be getting back to a more empathetic and slightly more admirable America than the cesspool Bush-Cheney & Co have created. Adam Ash This article gets a few things right, and a few things wrong. What’s right is that our Empire is doing terrible things overseas, killing thousands of innocents, as it has done for over a 100 years.
Yet today the majority of Americans want out of Iraq. They may be victims of our elite, but they are not entirely blind and deaf. America is full of people like Ralph Nader and Noam Chomsky and Barack Obama and Noami Klein and Samantha Powers who speak of a side of America that is anti-fascist and whose various commentaries are, I suggest, more clear-eyed than Manuel’s.
It may be dusk in Amerika, Manuel, but it is by no means midnight. Yet.
And in 2009 we may be getting back to a more empathetic and slightly more admirable America than the cesspool Bush-Cheney & Co have created.
Adam Ash

]]> By: Dissident Voice : Crusade of Surge and Siege: Part Two http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14940 Dissident Voice : Crusade of Surge and Siege: Part Two Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:01:43 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14940 [...] Read also Part One. [...] [...] Read also Part One. [...]

]]> By: D.R. Munro http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14898 D.R. Munro Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:43:46 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14898 Yeah, this is veiled facism we have going in Amerika these days. Sure, we don't have swastikas and eagle armbands to rally the troops behind, but - take a walk in America, anywhere in America, and make a 360 degree turn and count how many American flags you see. Now do that in Germany, or France, or England, or Canada, or Italy, or Spain - you will see hardly any (except, of course, when their football team is playing) That is your facist symbol. That is your rallying point. Our flag. I must say, that was brilliant thinking. Take an existing symbol and transform it, that way when someone attempts to call it out, one only needs to say "bah! That isn't facist! That's been around since for hundreds of years!" Yeah, this is veiled facism we have going in Amerika these days. Sure, we don’t have swastikas and eagle armbands to rally the troops behind, but – take a walk in America, anywhere in America, and make a 360 degree turn and count how many American flags you see.

Now do that in Germany, or France, or England, or Canada, or Italy, or Spain – you will see hardly any (except, of course, when their football team is playing)

That is your facist symbol. That is your rallying point. Our flag.

I must say, that was brilliant thinking. Take an existing symbol and transform it, that way when someone attempts to call it out, one only needs to say “bah! That isn’t facist! That’s been around since for hundreds of years!”

]]> By: Lloyd Rowsey http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14873 Lloyd Rowsey Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:55:00 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14873 c'mon. sk. this is DISSIDENT Voice. fascism is the form of capitalism with planning totally excluding workers but totally dependent upon hoaxing them. Mr. and Ms. Amerika are surely shocked when encountering the "f-word" used to describe this country's political economy. Readers of DV, one hopes, are a little beyond that. c’mon. sk. this is DISSIDENT Voice. fascism is the form of capitalism with planning totally excluding workers but totally dependent upon hoaxing them.

Mr. and Ms. Amerika are surely shocked when encountering the “f-word” used to describe this country’s political economy. Readers of DV, one hopes, are a little beyond that.

]]> By: Polack in Idaho http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14848 Polack in Idaho Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:29:47 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14848 The article is certainly well spoken, although somewhat one-sided. It presents a tragic state of affairs from a perspective of "what could be" if human nature was free from evil dreams of power. But there is actually an optimistic side to it. Despite centuries of brainwashing, incessant propaganda, dumbing down, dehumanizing, trivializing, jingoism; despite lack of political choice and absence of political process; despite promoting ugly and vicious system as "freedom and democracy" - Americans still have a need for decency, and would like to be descent, or at least think they are decent, or appear decent. Sure, there is a lot of profoundly misguided and disoriented people here - but there are also those, who are trying to remain descent, and cling to whatever humanity they still have left. There is a hope - and the system IS breaking down under the weight of its own contradictions. If only a Yankee Gorbachev showed up... The article is certainly well spoken, although somewhat one-sided. It presents a tragic state of affairs from a perspective of “what could be” if human nature was free from evil dreams of power. But there is actually an optimistic side to it. Despite centuries of brainwashing, incessant propaganda, dumbing down, dehumanizing, trivializing, jingoism; despite lack of political choice and absence of political process; despite promoting ugly and vicious system as “freedom and democracy” – Americans still have a need for decency, and would like to be descent, or at least think they are decent, or appear decent. Sure, there is a lot of profoundly misguided and disoriented people here – but there are also those, who are trying to remain descent, and cling to whatever humanity they still have left. There is a hope – and the system IS breaking down under the weight of its own contradictions. If only a Yankee Gorbachev showed up…

]]> By: D.R. Munro http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14840 D.R. Munro Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:37:28 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14840 Yeah, David, tell me about it. Funny thing is though, on a recent two-month backpacking trip through Europe, nearly everyone I met wanted to move to Amerika! I felt like saying "Are you people crazy?" Yeah, David, tell me about it.

Funny thing is though, on a recent two-month backpacking trip through Europe, nearly everyone I met wanted to move to Amerika!

I felt like saying “Are you people crazy?”

]]> By: DavidG. http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14830 DavidG. Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:02:25 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14830 Interesting article, one which would benefit from some shortening. It does however paint a bleak if realistic picture of Amerika, a land that, if we are to believe the advertising, everyone in the world wants to live in. Well, I don't! Interesting article, one which would benefit from some shortening. It does however paint a bleak if realistic picture of Amerika, a land that, if we are to believe the advertising, everyone in the world wants to live in.

Well, I don’t!

]]> By: Sunil Sharma http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14829 Sunil Sharma Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:51:08 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14829 Oops, thank you for catching that, HR. The author is indeed Manuel Valenzuela not Manuel Garcia. We have a drop down box for selecting authors when we post an article and we apparently didn't scroll down far enough. Our apologies to both Manuels. -- Sunil Oops, thank you for catching that, HR. The author is indeed Manuel Valenzuela not Manuel Garcia. We have a drop down box for selecting authors when we post an article and we apparently didn’t scroll down far enough. Our apologies to both Manuels.

– Sunil

]]> By: HR http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14818 HR Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:31:31 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14818 The article also appears on the Information Clearing House Site. There, the author's name is given as Manuel Valenzuela, not Manuel Garcia, Jr. Given the writing style, I believe this is Mr. Valenzuela's work. Please clarify. The article also appears on the Information Clearing House Site. There, the author’s name is given as Manuel Valenzuela, not Manuel Garcia, Jr. Given the writing style, I believe this is Mr. Valenzuela’s work. Please clarify.

]]> By: rgaylor@pvtnetworks.net http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14805 rgaylor@pvtnetworks.net Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:40:19 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14805 Manuel, Well stated. I am somewhat jealous of your ability to state the obvious in a way that is somewhat less pedantic than the normal diatribes ... G Manuel,
Well stated.
I am somewhat jealous of your ability to state the obvious in a way that is somewhat less pedantic than the normal diatribes …

G

]]> By: sk http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14804 sk Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:30:53 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/crusade-of-surge-and-siege/#comment-14804 There was a good bit of <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_7cYpma_Fw" rel="nofollow">alarmism</a> in France last year--reminiscent of those who supposedly considered moving to Canada (or New Zealand, for that matter) in '04 when Bush won a second term. After Sarkozy came to power, Jean Bricmont analyzed some of the factors that allowed a person like him to gain a decisive electoral victory. One point he made was that overuse of the 'F word'--"a continuous temptation, a packet of aspirins always at one's elbow", as <a href="http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm" rel="nofollow">George Orwell</a> put it--should be high on our list of changes to make: <blockquote> ...much of this leftist talk about values is centered around antifascism, as if this were the main issue today. The fact is that fascism was defeated more than sixty years ago and that nobody, not even Le Pen, seriously thinks of bringing it back, at least in its original form, namely a one party dictatorship, headed by a major leader. The left, specially the far left, loves to talk about "Vichy France", forgetting that the Vichy regime was the result of a foreign invasion and would not have existed without it...There is nothing moral or politically effective about making people feel guilty for crimes that they have not committed; yet a lot of the discourse on the left and the far left does just that. </blockquote> There was a good bit of alarmism in France last year–reminiscent of those who supposedly considered moving to Canada (or New Zealand, for that matter) in ‘04 when Bush won a second term. After Sarkozy came to power, Jean Bricmont analyzed some of the factors that allowed a person like him to gain a decisive electoral victory. One point he made was that overuse of the ‘F word’–”a continuous temptation, a packet of aspirins always at one’s elbow”, as George Orwell put it–should be high on our list of changes to make:

…much of this leftist talk about values is centered around antifascism, as if this were the main issue today. The fact is that fascism was defeated more than sixty years ago and that nobody, not even Le Pen, seriously thinks of bringing it back, at least in its original form, namely a one party dictatorship, headed by a major leader. The left, specially the far left, loves to talk about “Vichy France”, forgetting that the Vichy regime was the result of a foreign invasion and would not have existed without it…There is nothing moral or politically effective about making people feel guilty for crimes that they have not committed; yet a lot of the discourse on the left and the far left does just that.

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