Comments on: Cloned or Conventional, Meat is Unsafe http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:51:44 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Cami http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-20858 Cami Wed, 21 May 2008 01:45:26 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-20858 Thanks for this article it really helped me with the project I am working on about america's food and meat being uneccptable to eat, and this really helped me. Thank-you. Thanks for this article it really helped me with the project I am working on about america’s food and meat being uneccptable to eat, and this really helped me. Thank-you.

]]> By: Clark Clydstone http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14619 Clark Clydstone Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:31:22 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14619 In my travels to over 24 countries in 18 years, I've learned much about nutrition. Nevertheless, because of my interminable travels, I went thru a nasty divorce in 1998 and as a result endured some real pain from my prostate. Emotional disturbances excerbate enflamed prostates. Not being able to wee when need arises is about one of the most painful experiences anyone can experience. Please let me share an anomaly of that experience. I was on a year project to Venezuela for which I would return State side every 6 weeks for personal business and remain 10 days or so. ALthough on several occasions it was longer. My condition was full blown when I reported to the project in Venezuela and it was so embarassing, that I needed to stay close to the wee hole. After about 2-3 weeks, my condition would begin to alleviate considerably then go into remission. To my great relief and each time I thought surely I'm over it. After about three episodes of the syntomes leaving and returning with my trips to the US, I decided to see a vascular surgeon recently immigrated from Italy to Venezuela. He did not show standard Doctor sympathy for my condition and was somewhat cavalier about it. I explained in detail what was happening to me and how my body responded after only a few short weeks in Venezuela. Me and thousands of men in the US, prostate enflammation is serious business. This is what this doctor told me after explaining my condition and travels to the US and Venezuela: "Your condition is really not much of a mystery, in fact the US is where this condition is most prevalent. Something in a previous time never existed even in your country. If you want to get well, stop eating commercial meat, meat by products as well dairy products in the United States when your there and you'll get well. Now if you wish, I can prescribe some medi cation that can alleviate the symtomes, but your'll still have the underlying problem." He said: "the cause of this problem is the US Meat Industry, they add much antibiotics to animal feed and to get those same animals to market faster they add harmones which explains puberty in 10 year olds in your country." Fellow readers, I stopped eating commercial meat in 1999 in the United States and have been symptom free ever since. I am 60 years old and my wife is 33 and I perform as when I was 35 and not to boast she at times complains that I want intimate relations too much. My father just died at 98, my great grandmother at 109, both grandfathers in thier late 90's. I truly believe every human being should begin middle age at 65 and old age at 85 and can do it if nutrition becomes a full time notice on our behavior. I still eat meat, but living on a ranch allows me to raise my own, and when I haven't a slaughter animal, I buy a lamb or a young heifer from a nieghbor. Although, fresh fruits , vegetables and a variety of nuts are 75% of my nutrition. COOKED food becomes instant glucose in the blood and therefore a simple carbohydrate. No great mystery, but it does take determined effort to nourish oneself with our health a constant proirity especially when traveling. It's not so much the meat that is evil, its how that animal was nourished, because your eating whatever that animal ate. Animal protein and simple carbohydrates is the average American's addiction, almost as bad as alcohol is to the alcoholic. COMPLEX carbohydrates is where our nutrition should lie and meat perhaps 15-18% of our regualr diet. Enjoy your meals and your life.........we only have it once. Clark In my travels to over 24 countries in 18 years, I’ve learned much about nutrition.
Nevertheless, because of my interminable travels, I went thru a nasty divorce in 1998 and as a result endured some real pain from my prostate. Emotional disturbances excerbate enflamed prostates. Not being able to wee when need arises is about one of the most painful experiences anyone can experience. Please let me share an anomaly of that experience.

I was on a year project to Venezuela for which I would return State side every 6 weeks for personal business and remain 10 days or so. ALthough on several occasions it was longer. My condition was full blown when I reported to the project in Venezuela and it was so embarassing, that I needed to stay close to the wee hole. After about 2-3 weeks, my condition would begin to alleviate considerably then go into remission. To my great relief and each time I thought surely I’m over it.
After about three episodes of the syntomes leaving and returning with my trips to the US, I decided to see a vascular surgeon recently immigrated from Italy to Venezuela.
He did not show standard Doctor sympathy for my condition and was somewhat cavalier about it. I explained in detail what was happening to me and how my body responded after only a few short weeks in Venezuela. Me and thousands of men in the US, prostate enflammation is serious business.
This is what this doctor told me after explaining my condition and travels to the US and Venezuela:
“Your condition is really not much of a mystery, in fact the US is where this condition is most prevalent. Something in a previous time never existed even in your country. If you want to get well, stop eating commercial meat, meat by products as well dairy products in the United States when your there and you’ll get well. Now if you wish, I can prescribe some medi cation that can alleviate the symtomes, but your’ll still have the underlying problem.”
He said: “the cause of this problem is the US Meat Industry, they add much antibiotics to animal feed and to get those same animals to market faster they add harmones which explains puberty in 10 year olds in your country.”
Fellow readers, I stopped eating commercial meat in 1999 in the United States and have been symptom free ever since. I am 60 years old and my wife is 33 and I perform as when I was 35 and not to boast she at times complains that I want intimate relations too much. My father just died at 98, my great grandmother at 109, both grandfathers in thier late 90’s. I truly believe every human being should begin middle age at 65 and old age at 85 and can do it if nutrition becomes a full time notice on our behavior.
I still eat meat, but living on a ranch allows me to raise my own, and when I haven’t a slaughter animal, I buy a lamb or a young heifer from a nieghbor. Although, fresh fruits , vegetables and a variety of nuts are 75% of my nutrition. COOKED food becomes instant glucose in the blood and therefore a simple carbohydrate. No great mystery, but it does take determined effort to nourish oneself with our health a constant proirity especially when traveling.
It’s not so much the meat that is evil, its how that animal was nourished, because your eating whatever that animal ate. Animal protein and simple carbohydrates is the average American’s addiction, almost as bad as alcohol is to the alcoholic. COMPLEX carbohydrates is where our nutrition should lie and meat perhaps 15-18% of our regualr diet. Enjoy your meals and your life………we only have it once.

Clark

]]> By: Chris Crass http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14473 Chris Crass Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:20:19 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14473 I'd just like to chime in here and point out that the name "Topps Meat Co." makes me laugh. I’d just like to chime in here and point out that the name “Topps Meat Co.” makes me laugh.

]]> By: paul http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14454 paul Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:06:04 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14454 People have eaten meat for millions (!) of years, maybe, but I'm quite sure they haven't done it every day. Most studies show that in Europe for the last 2000 years meat was eaten maybe twice a week. The roman soldier was feeding mostly on a diet of barley. Cereals, fruits, vegetables, milk and cheese were eaten on a daily basis, not meat. In fact a diet based on meat was the nobleman's privilege (muscle, strength, and not least, fast renewal of sexual capacity). Early american colonists were said to be taller than their european grandfathers due to the huge availability of meat, be it from raising cattles or wild animals, in North America. Not paying taxes to feudal landlords might have helped their case too. Daily consumption of meat is a recent phenomenon. I was born late fifties in a french middle class family and my parents never had meat on a daily basis. I did, thanks to the huge economical development that followed world war 2. The case for meat is not really whether it's good or bad for health, but more like do we need to eat that much ? Being two inches taller than my father is certainly a boost to my ego, and then what ? A body raised and kept on a regular use of meat is a body hard to maintain in good conditions. You need exercises, sport, you have to keep it moving one way or the other, and you need to supply it with meat. Shit stinks because human bowels are not designed to handle that much animal protein. Second you need to have access to good quality meat, otherwise it stinks even more, and that means organic and it's a lot more expensive. But the drama of modern western lifestyle is, you need meat, lots of it : not to build muscles (who needs muscles to survive today?), not to run and hunt games. You need it so that your nervous system will keep up with the stress, the pace, the insecurity, the hidden violence of human and business relations. I defy anyone to work long hours , run a business, deal with problems, on a vegetarian diet alone. I tried. And maybe you need it to comfort the age-old illusion on a deep cellular level that you are a winner, that you have actually killed another animal and survived, and you're digesting-absorbing its strength. People have eaten meat for millions (!) of years, maybe, but I’m quite sure they haven’t done it every day. Most studies show that in Europe for the last 2000 years meat was eaten maybe twice a week. The roman soldier was feeding mostly on a diet of barley. Cereals, fruits, vegetables, milk and cheese were eaten on a daily basis, not meat. In fact a diet based on meat was the nobleman’s privilege (muscle, strength, and not least, fast renewal of sexual capacity). Early american colonists were said to be taller than their european grandfathers due to the huge availability of meat, be it from raising cattles or wild animals, in North America. Not paying taxes to feudal landlords might have helped their case too. Daily consumption of meat is a recent phenomenon. I was born late fifties in a french middle class family and my parents never had meat on a daily basis. I did, thanks to the huge economical development that followed world war 2. The case for meat is not really whether it’s good or bad for health, but more like do we need to eat that much ? Being two inches taller than my father is certainly a boost to my ego, and then what ? A body raised and kept on a regular use of meat is a body hard to maintain in good conditions. You need exercises, sport, you have to keep it moving one way or the other, and you need to supply it with meat. Shit stinks because human bowels are not designed to handle that much animal protein. Second you need to have access to good quality meat, otherwise it stinks even more, and that means organic and it’s a lot more expensive. But the drama of modern western lifestyle is, you need meat, lots of it : not to build muscles (who needs muscles to survive today?), not to run and hunt games. You need it so that your nervous system will keep up with the stress, the pace, the insecurity, the hidden violence of human and business relations. I defy anyone to work long hours , run a business, deal with problems, on a vegetarian diet alone. I tried. And maybe you need it to comfort the age-old illusion on a deep cellular level that you are a winner, that you have actually killed another animal and survived, and you’re digesting-absorbing its strength.

]]> By: doug http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14413 doug Wed, 13 Feb 2008 02:20:06 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14413 Meat is not unhealthy. BUT commercially produced meat IS SUSPECT for several reasons. Much of the US is over populated with ungulates(white tailed deer) Sooooooo........Eat deer meat! it is healthy and cheap. BUT!!!! You have to KILL it yourself and dress it and butcher it to eat it.SOOO>>>> Learn to hunt and kill and eat healthy meat. If you eat meat and you don't hunt you are endorsing the industrial meat production of this country with all it's obvious shortcomings. Meat is not unhealthy. BUT commercially produced meat IS SUSPECT for several reasons. Much of the US is over populated with ungulates(white tailed deer) Sooooooo……..Eat deer meat! it is healthy and cheap. BUT!!!! You have to KILL it yourself and dress it and butcher it to eat it.SOOO>>>> Learn to hunt and kill and eat healthy meat. If you eat meat and you don’t hunt you are endorsing the industrial meat production of this country with all it’s obvious shortcomings.

]]> By: Thomas Victor http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14409 Thomas Victor Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:58:42 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14409 It's a mistake to lump in criticism of cloning animals for food with criticism of consumption of meat and milk products in general. The author has such child like faith in these 'studies' and in research scientists in the health field!. There are 1000's of dubious studies out there, just pick your point of view and you can find many studies that support that view. And many that say the opposite. The American Medical establishment has chosen to push it's point of view to the exclusion of all others (does that sound familiar?) so be cautious, same as with other establishment news. For example, read the Dr Atkins diet book and you can see 100's of scientific studies showing that people have done very well with high fat diets. But the current 'medical establishment' view is to demonize satuarated fats and cholesterol and to ignore any studies that say the opposite. There are studies that show for people above 50, the ones with high cholesterol live longer than those with low cholesterol. As Michael Kenny points out, humans have eaten meat and milk products for millions of years and flourished. In South Asia, coconut oil and palm oil have been heavily used through the ages with no ill effects inspite of the 'satuarated fats' scare in the US. Here, people switched to margarine and other hydrogenated fats and are suffering from the trans-fats they ingest. Meanwhile, at least 10 years ago, scientific articles came out saying,yes that was a mistake, there are no problems with coconut oil. And now there are booming sales in organic cocnut oil as a health food. Yet the medical establishment refuses to acknowledge it's mistake. Cholesterol, far from being evil, is absolutely necessary for humans. The brain is 50% cholesterol, cholesterol is a necessary element in cell walls, and cholesterol is the starting point for many hormones including the sex hormones. The fact that cholesterol is found in arterial placques could well be due to it being being used by the body to patch weak arterial walls that are about to give way, not due to it being CAUSE of the the placque. So the problem is really how to strengthen arteries, not how to eliminate evil cholesterol. That's what Dr Linus Pauling found and his work is being continued by Dr Mathias Rath. In looking at health studies it is crucial to delve into the actual details of the experimental setup. Most health studies I've looked at, the math and statistics look very impressive but so many basic factors about the phenomena being studied are ignored that the results are dubious. How many studies have you seen that say something like - Native people in country A had simple diets consisting of foods XY & Z, they switched to American hamburger and pizza and are dying like flies. So hamburger and pizza is deadly, instead eat foods X Y and Z. People here try foods X Y & Z and it makes no difference. In fact some are much WORSE such as Soy Milk instead of real milk. It might turn out (my theory) that the crucial thing wasn't the food at all, it was that those people had switched to the competitive, hurried individualistic American way of life with no job security and that was what killed them, not the fast food. I've been eating dozens of eggs a week for the past 40 years and use a lot of coconut oil but my cholesterol levels are fine. I'm trying to switch to NOT eating meat for humane reasons but will probably do that by drinking more milk than I do now. I find raw milk suits me the best. I think the body adapts really well to all kinds of natural unprocessed foods so being picky isn't necessary. Eating only moderate amounts of food and getting a lot of exercise/physical activity and avoiding continual stress is what keeps one healthy. It’s a mistake to lump in criticism of cloning animals for food with criticism of consumption of meat and milk products in general.

The author has such child like faith in these ’studies’ and in research scientists in the health field!. There are 1000’s of dubious studies out there, just pick your point of view and you can find many studies that support that view. And many that say the opposite. The American Medical establishment has chosen to push it’s point of view to the exclusion of all others (does that sound familiar?) so be cautious, same as with other establishment news.

For example, read the Dr Atkins diet book and you can see 100’s of scientific studies showing that people have done very well with high fat diets. But the current ‘medical establishment’ view is to demonize satuarated fats and cholesterol and to ignore any studies that say the opposite.

There are studies that show for people above 50, the ones with high cholesterol live longer than those with low cholesterol.

As Michael Kenny points out, humans have eaten meat and milk products for millions of years and flourished. In South Asia, coconut oil and palm oil have been heavily used through the ages with no ill effects inspite of the ’satuarated fats’ scare in the US. Here, people switched to margarine and other hydrogenated fats and are suffering from the trans-fats they ingest. Meanwhile, at least 10 years ago, scientific articles came out saying,yes that was a mistake, there are no problems with coconut oil. And now there are booming sales in organic cocnut oil as a health food. Yet the medical establishment refuses to acknowledge it’s mistake.

Cholesterol, far from being evil, is absolutely necessary for humans. The brain is 50% cholesterol, cholesterol is a necessary element in cell walls, and cholesterol is the starting point for many hormones including the sex hormones. The fact that cholesterol is found in arterial placques could well be due to it being being used by the body to patch weak arterial walls that are about to give way, not due to it being CAUSE of the the placque. So the problem is really how to strengthen arteries, not how to eliminate evil cholesterol. That’s what Dr Linus Pauling found and his work is being continued by Dr Mathias Rath.

In looking at health studies it is crucial to delve into the actual details of the experimental setup. Most health studies I’ve looked at, the math and statistics look very impressive but so many basic factors about the phenomena being studied are ignored that the results are dubious.

How many studies have you seen that say something like – Native people in country A had simple diets consisting of foods XY & Z, they switched to American hamburger and pizza and are dying like flies. So hamburger and pizza is deadly, instead eat foods X Y and Z. People here try foods X Y & Z and it makes no difference. In fact some are much WORSE such as Soy Milk instead of real milk. It might turn out (my theory) that the crucial thing wasn’t the food at all, it was that those people had switched to the competitive, hurried individualistic American way of life with no job security and that was what killed them, not the fast food.

I’ve been eating dozens of eggs a week for the past 40 years and use a lot of coconut oil but my cholesterol levels are fine. I’m trying to switch to NOT eating meat for humane reasons but will probably do that by drinking more milk than I do now. I find raw milk suits me the best.

I think the body adapts really well to all kinds of natural unprocessed foods so being picky isn’t necessary. Eating only moderate amounts of food and getting a lot of exercise/physical activity and avoiding continual stress is what keeps one healthy.

]]> By: Michael Dawson http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14404 Michael Dawson Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:08:16 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14404 People are not "consumers." We are product-users. If you hope to help spread the word about better eating and better living in the modern world, please stop employing corporate capitalism's slurs against human beings. Calling people "consumers" obscures their normal aims and interests from view. That's part of the trickery and misinformation that you're fighting against. Don't give in to it! Next time you find yourself about to write "more and more consumers are resolving to make healthy, humane food choices," just say "more and more _people_ are resolving to make healthy, humane food choices." It's easy and subtly important. As the old song says, people are people. People are not “consumers.” We are product-users. If you hope to help spread the word about better eating and better living in the modern world, please stop employing corporate capitalism’s slurs against human beings.

Calling people “consumers” obscures their normal aims and interests from view. That’s part of the trickery and misinformation that you’re fighting against. Don’t give in to it!

Next time you find yourself about to write “more and more consumers are resolving to make healthy, humane food choices,” just say “more and more _people_ are resolving to make healthy, humane food choices.”

It’s easy and subtly important. As the old song says, people are people.

]]> By: Voltairine http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14387 Voltairine Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:20:49 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14387 The results of scientific studies that Ms. Moore cites in her article appear to counter Mr. Kenny's assertion that consumption of animal products has not had any "apparent detrimental effect" on human health. Whether humans of past millenia who consumed animal products suffered "detrimental" effects is a question we simply can't definitively answer. But the results of numerous studies suggest that humans living now are certainly suffering such effects. Though other lifestyle choices arguably play a role in human health problems, the evidence is mounting that a diet high in animal products is a risky choice if one wishes to optimize health. Whether consuming animal products is "inherently wrong" is beside the point. The results of scientific studies that Ms. Moore cites in her article appear to counter Mr. Kenny’s assertion that consumption of animal products has not had any “apparent detrimental effect” on human health. Whether humans of past millenia who consumed animal products suffered “detrimental” effects is a question we simply can’t definitively answer. But the results of numerous studies suggest that humans living now are certainly suffering such effects. Though other lifestyle choices arguably play a role in human health problems, the evidence is mounting that a diet high in animal products is a risky choice if one wishes to optimize health. Whether consuming animal products is “inherently wrong” is beside the point.

]]> By: Brit http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14383 Brit Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:35:37 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14383 The human brain would have never become so large without meat. But the fact that the protein in meat has been beneficial for us, doesn't eliminate the possibility that other aspects of meat are bad for us. Maybe it would be healthier for all of us to get our potein from vegetable-based products. The human brain would have never become so large without meat. But the fact that the protein in meat has been beneficial for us, doesn’t eliminate the possibility that other aspects of meat are bad for us. Maybe it would be healthier for all of us to get our potein from vegetable-based products.

]]> By: Michael Kenny http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14380 Michael Kenny Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:15:23 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14380 If Ms Moore wants to argue that eating meat and milk products are inherently bad, she will need to explain why the human race has eaten meat for several million years without any apparent detrimental effect, and that in an age when nobody knew what cholesterol, saturated fat and concentrated protein were. Also, why is OK to kill a vegetable and eat it but not OK to kill an animal and eat it? If Ms Moore wants to argue that eating meat and milk products are inherently bad, she will need to explain why the human race has eaten meat for several million years without any apparent detrimental effect, and that in an age when nobody knew what cholesterol, saturated fat and concentrated protein were. Also, why is OK to kill a vegetable and eat it but not OK to kill an animal and eat it?

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14369 Don Hawkins Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:22:02 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14369 Secretary Paulson said that responsible people will be helped a few minutes ago on TV. Because with this twisted logic we all see it looks like the irresponsible people don't need any help as they just help themselves. Now just who are these irresponsible people? Because they should be told sternly “that’s unacceptable!”. Isn't twisted logic fun. Secretary Paulson said that responsible people will be helped a few minutes ago on TV. Because with this twisted logic we all see it looks like the irresponsible people don’t need any help as they just help themselves. Now just who are these irresponsible people? Because they should be told sternly “that’s unacceptable!”. Isn’t twisted logic fun.

]]> By: partisan http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14366 partisan Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:10:16 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14366 The FDA is moving in the wrong direction???? what are you people thinking the FDA is intended for? to protect the customers from greedy, filthy and nasty corporation interest? you "dissidentvoice"-people normally think into the right direction, but sometimes you appear really naive! Dig a little deeper, the FDA is not on your side! The FDA is moving in the wrong direction????

what are you people thinking the FDA is intended for? to protect the customers from greedy, filthy and nasty corporation interest? you “dissidentvoice”-people normally think into the right direction, but sometimes you appear really naive! Dig a little deeper, the FDA is not on your side!

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14358 Don Hawkins Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:23:59 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14358 Hay what about those wheat prices doubled in two months. Wait don't tell me we are growing crops for fuel now is this an example of twisted logic. Because we could make smaller cars that get say 80 MPG or switch to electric as we use geothermal, wind ,solar, nuclear and get on with some research and fast. We could still use oil for farming until we get it right and of course the use of mass transit is a good one. That's unacceptable? To who and why? Now many people say we have only 7 or 8 years to do this is that unacceptable, why to hard. Golf, tennis anyone. Dinner party how is St. Barts this time of year Hay what about those wheat prices doubled in two months. Wait don’t tell me we are growing crops for fuel now is this an example of twisted logic. Because we could make smaller cars that get say 80 MPG or switch to electric as we use geothermal, wind ,solar, nuclear and get on with some research and fast. We could still use oil for farming until we get it right and of course the use of mass transit is a good one. That’s unacceptable? To who and why? Now many people say we have only 7 or 8 years to do this is that unacceptable, why to hard. Golf, tennis anyone. Dinner party how is St. Barts this time of year

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14355 Don Hawkins Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:29:55 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/cloned-or-conventional-meat-is-unsafe/#comment-14355 The effect of the filtering of climate change science during the current Administration has been to make the reality of climate change less certain than the facts indicate and to reduce concern about the relation of climate change to human-made greenhouse gas emissions. For example, one of my staff members submitted a story based on his paper that found the ocean was less effective at removing human-made CO2 than had previously been estimated. Public Affairs decided that this story should not be provided to the media. Another staff member had to attend a ‘practice’ press conference, in which he was asked whether anything could be done to stem accelerating loss of sea ice. When he suggested “we could reduce emissions of greenhouse gases” he was told sternly “that’s unacceptable!”, with the explanation that scientists are not allowed to say anything that relates to policy. James Hansen The Washington Post Saturday 09 February 2008 EPA effort to limit mercury output is said to ignore law. A federal appeals court yesterday threw out the Environmental Protection Agency's approach to limiting mercury emitted from power-plant smokestacks, saying the agency ignored laws and twisted logic when it imposed new standards that were favorable to plant owners. Twisted logic when it imposed new standards that were favorable to plant owners. I am sorry but “that’s unacceptable!” Now just for the heck of it who is right here. Because both sides can say that's unacceptable. Then you have to ask yourself this twisted logic thing who would use that and why? Can anybody recommend a good sea food place in New York City. How about one called "Heavy metal", I hear is all the rage. Suppose you had the President of the United States and a plant owner and James Hansen all standing together which one do you think would be more apt to use twisted logic? I know not a fair question it's a nobrainer. The effect of the filtering of climate change science during the current Administration has
been to make the reality of climate change less certain than the facts indicate and to reduce
concern about the relation of climate change to human-made greenhouse gas emissions. For
example, one of my staff members submitted a story based on his paper that found the ocean was
less effective at removing human-made CO2 than had previously been estimated. Public Affairs
decided that this story should not be provided to the media. Another staff member had to attend
a ‘practice’ press conference, in which he was asked whether anything could be done to stem
accelerating loss of sea ice. When he suggested “we could reduce emissions of greenhouse
gases” he was told sternly “that’s unacceptable!”, with the explanation that scientists are not
allowed to say anything that relates to policy. James Hansen

The Washington Post
Saturday 09 February 2008

EPA effort to limit mercury output is said to ignore law.
A federal appeals court yesterday threw out the Environmental Protection Agency’s approach to limiting mercury emitted from power-plant smokestacks, saying the agency ignored laws and twisted logic when it imposed new standards that were favorable to plant owners.

Twisted logic when it imposed new standards that were favorable to plant owners. I am sorry but “that’s unacceptable!” Now just for the heck of it who is right here. Because both sides can say that’s unacceptable. Then you have to ask yourself this twisted logic thing who would use that and why? Can anybody recommend a good sea food place in New York City. How about one called “Heavy metal”, I hear is all the rage. Suppose you had the President of the United States and a plant owner and James Hansen all standing together which one do you think would be more apt to use twisted logic? I know not a fair question it’s a nobrainer.

]]>