Comments on: The Great Credit Unwind of ’08 http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:07:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: B Alfant http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13876 B Alfant Sat, 02 Feb 2008 05:58:08 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13876 ....sorry about the double post, thought it wouldn't accept due to length. ….sorry about the double post, thought it wouldn’t accept due to length.

]]> By: B Alfant http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13874 B Alfant Sat, 02 Feb 2008 05:52:32 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13874 "This country needs Volcker-style discipline, face in the mud discipline. We need force the speculators and the greedy fools to die type discipline, and we need it now....And yet we have an entire, vast class of so-called educated people swooning under the spell of Barack Obama and his utter lack of positions, his utter failure to address a single problem raised by real outsider candidates" Volcker just endorsed Obama. Do you really believe the first African American President of Harvard Law Review could not also be the most brilliant politician this country has ever seen. Possibly even? If the problems raised by 'outside candidates' need to be effectively addressed.....he needs to win the nomination first. From The Cure at Troy-- "Human beings suffer, they torture one another, they get hurt and get hard. No poem or play or song can fully right a wrong inflicted or endured. The innocent in gaols beat on their bars together. A hunger-striker's father stands in the graveyard dumb. The police widow in veils faints at the funeral home. History says, Don't hope on this side of the grave. But then, once in a lifetime the longed for tidal wave of justice can rise up, and hope and history rhyme. So hope for a great sea-change on the far side of revenge. Believe that a further shore is reachable from here. Believe in miracles and cures and healing wells. Call the miracle self-healing: The utter self-revealing double-take of feeling. If there's fire on the mountain Or lightning and storm And a god speaks from the sky That means someone is hearing the outcry and the birth-cry of new life at its term." “This country needs Volcker-style discipline, face in the mud discipline. We need force the speculators and the greedy fools to die type discipline, and we need it now….And yet we have an entire, vast class of so-called educated people swooning under the spell of Barack Obama and his utter lack of positions, his utter failure to address a single problem raised by real outsider candidates”

Volcker just endorsed Obama.
Do you really believe the first African American President of Harvard Law Review could not also be the most brilliant politician this country has ever seen. Possibly even? If the problems raised by ‘outside candidates’ need to be effectively addressed…..he needs to win the nomination first.

From The Cure at Troy–

“Human beings suffer,
they torture one another,
they get hurt and get hard.
No poem or play or song
can fully right a wrong
inflicted or endured.

The innocent in gaols
beat on their bars together.
A hunger-striker’s father
stands in the graveyard dumb.
The police widow in veils
faints at the funeral home.

History says, Don’t hope
on this side of the grave.
But then, once in a lifetime
the longed for tidal wave
of justice can rise up,
and hope and history rhyme.

So hope for a great sea-change
on the far side of revenge.
Believe that a further shore
is reachable from here.
Believe in miracles
and cures and healing wells.

Call the miracle self-healing:
The utter self-revealing
double-take of feeling.
If there’s fire on the mountain
Or lightning and storm
And a god speaks from the sky

That means someone is hearing
the outcry and the birth-cry
of new life at its term.”

]]> By: J McBeal http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13853 J McBeal Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:51:33 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13853 I predict a Clinton/Obama ticket. The dems will win after '08 crisis unwinds before election day, after Bush goes half-cocked and out of control over the middle east, after food and water shortages become apparent, and before the riots begin. I predict a Clinton/Obama ticket. The dems will win after ’08 crisis unwinds before election day, after Bush goes half-cocked and out of control over the middle east, after food and water shortages become apparent, and before the riots begin.

]]> By: Jim Klingbeil http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13849 Jim Klingbeil Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:43:58 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13849 It is very important to know what's going on. I show these articles to true believers of the capitalist religion and mostly they get nervous and deny reality and say everything will work out. Like Mr. Smith i believe a economic collapse could help bring about real change. For 30+ years since i've understood the true nature of the beast i've wished for global economic collapse. But the capitalist system always seems to pull through and today the criminal ruling elite has such a lock on the media and thought control that i doubt even a depression as deep as the 30's will be able to bring about as great of progressive change. Most Americans would be happy with a Hitler, they are incapable of electing another Roosevelt, let alone someone even better. I and other working people have been watching our well being decline for 25 years, if there is an economic collapse we will suffer more than the truly wealthy, but nothing else is even going to come close to making progressive change possible. It is very important to know what’s going on. I show these articles to true believers of the capitalist religion and mostly they get nervous and deny reality and say everything will work out. Like Mr. Smith i believe a economic collapse could help bring about real change. For 30+ years since i’ve understood the true nature of the beast i’ve wished for global economic collapse. But the capitalist system always seems to pull through and today the criminal ruling elite has such a lock on the media and thought control that i doubt even a depression as deep as the 30′s will be able to bring about as great of progressive change. Most Americans would be happy with a Hitler, they are incapable of electing another Roosevelt, let alone someone even better. I and other working people have been watching our well being decline for 25 years, if there is an economic collapse we will suffer more than the truly wealthy, but nothing else is even going to come close to making progressive change possible.

]]> By: Gary Lapon http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13802 Gary Lapon Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:05:23 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13802 P.S. David, I think it's important to understand what's going on with the economy and be able to explain things to people. A lot of people are going to be pissed off by the coming crisis, and it's necessary to organize, both to help people out in the short term and to ultimately change this irrational system. That said, pointing out the tragic absurdity of this unnecessary crisis, and showing how crises such as this are built into the system, are key tools for rebuilding the Left in the coming period. Mike Whitney does a good job of providing analysis that's useful to that project. P.S. David, I think it’s important to understand what’s going on with the economy and be able to explain things to people. A lot of people are going to be pissed off by the coming crisis, and it’s necessary to organize, both to help people out in the short term and to ultimately change this irrational system. That said, pointing out the tragic absurdity of this unnecessary crisis, and showing how crises such as this are built into the system, are key tools for rebuilding the Left in the coming period. Mike Whitney does a good job of providing analysis that’s useful to that project.

]]> By: Gary Lapon http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13801 Gary Lapon Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:00:18 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13801 rhodomontade: Even if Obama wins, he'll get about 25% of the vote, since half of eligible voters don't even bother anymore (I can't blame them). You seem to be buying into the very nonsense you blame others for buying into. Regular people are not to blame for the situation this country (and world) is in. Democracy didn't fail...true democracy (not the "formal" democracy we have now, where both Bill Gates and I have the same "right" to donate big money to campaigns and PACs) is impossible under capitalism. Instead of dismissing the mass of people, perhaps you should try talking to them. Or you could go live in the mountains and not bother anybody, to quote Don Rickles. rhodomontade: Even if Obama wins, he’ll get about 25% of the vote, since half of eligible voters don’t even bother anymore (I can’t blame them). You seem to be buying into the very nonsense you blame others for buying into. Regular people are not to blame for the situation this country (and world) is in. Democracy didn’t fail…true democracy (not the “formal” democracy we have now, where both Bill Gates and I have the same “right” to donate big money to campaigns and PACs) is impossible under capitalism. Instead of dismissing the mass of people, perhaps you should try talking to them. Or you could go live in the mountains and not bother anybody, to quote Don Rickles.

]]> By: David A. Smith http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13792 David A. Smith Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:53:02 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13792 I love all the hand wringing about economic collapse. And Mr. Whitney's weekly installment of hysteria is most welcome. I await it's publication as one of the most amusing five minutes I will spend at work all week. But clearly, I'm not as worried about it all. Why not? Let me start with the assumption that most reading DV are not believers in the growth model of economics, that we share the understanding that modern global capitalism is not sustainable. Let me also assume that most of us reading DV also understand that those who steer that system aren't going to let the rest of us wrench control from their wealthy little fingers. (In other words, no realistic alternative will be allowed to enter into public discussion.) If these two assumptions are correct, than I believe we must conclude that no graceful climb down from growth based global capitalism to a people centered sustainable economy is possible. Therefore, the only way we get to sustainability is for the global capitalist economy to collapse. Is that what Mr. Whitney is chronicling? If so, then I must ask, why are we all so fired up and concerned about economic collapse when it is necessary to reach a more sustainable way of life? Yes, I understand that there will be suffering and that the poor are the most defenseless during the collapse. But that's going to happen anyway. So why don't we stop bemoaning the credit collapse and start trying to find ways where we can turn it into a positive and sustainable future. The last thing we should be doing is looking for ways to prop up the global economy so that we can get a few more years of planet and people destroying "growth" out of it. I love all the hand wringing about economic collapse. And Mr. Whitney’s weekly installment of hysteria is most welcome. I await it’s publication as one of the most amusing five minutes I will spend at work all week.

But clearly, I’m not as worried about it all. Why not?

Let me start with the assumption that most reading DV are not believers in the growth model of economics, that we share the understanding that modern global capitalism is not sustainable. Let me also assume that most of us reading DV also understand that those who steer that system aren’t going to let the rest of us wrench control from their wealthy little fingers. (In other words, no realistic alternative will be allowed to enter into public discussion.)

If these two assumptions are correct, than I believe we must conclude that no graceful climb down from growth based global capitalism to a people centered sustainable economy is possible. Therefore, the only way we get to sustainability is for the global capitalist economy to collapse. Is that what Mr. Whitney is chronicling? If so, then I must ask, why are we all so fired up and concerned about economic collapse when it is necessary to reach a more sustainable way of life?

Yes, I understand that there will be suffering and that the poor are the most defenseless during the collapse. But that’s going to happen anyway. So why don’t we stop bemoaning the credit collapse and start trying to find ways where we can turn it into a positive and sustainable future. The last thing we should be doing is looking for ways to prop up the global economy so that we can get a few more years of planet and people destroying “growth” out of it.

]]> By: rhodomontade http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13782 rhodomontade Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:15:58 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13782 Cramer is right about the fiscal obligation of these worthless, comical, inept piece of crap rating agencies to lower the rating on these garbage "bond insurers." The fact these clown colleges continue to fail to do their duty is, like any display of clowns, sad and scary, not funny at all. The problem with Cramer though he was screaming, yelling -- he leads the pack of hedge fund troglodytes -- howling for lower interest rates, when that is not what this country needs. This country needs Volcker-style discipline, face in the mud discipline. We need force the speculators and the greedy fools to die type discipline, and we need it now. But it is impossible, because the political machine is so venal that the only response to crippling deficits is voting for more deficits. More money for homeowners. More money for defense industries. More money even for illegals, if you take that piece of crap mayor in Chicago seriously. Traitors all. All of you. Anyone voting for ANYTHING when you've already doomed us all to bankruptcy is a traitor and a liar. And yet we have an entire, vast class of so-called educated people swooning under the spell of Barack Obama and his utter lack of positions, his utter failure to address a single problem raised by real outsider candidates -- Kucinich and Paul. But the whole pack of you Hollywood-brainwashed, trash-eating eroding middle class, cultural illiterates will vote for this establishment puppet because he offers "Hope." Because you're all so badly-educated and horribly ignorant, you know more about Britney Spears and Tom Cruise than you do about the damn money and the damn laws that rules you. Take your hope and shove it up your windpipe, you godforsaken innumerate bloated ignorant thieves. Your stupidity, your fat, blind ignorance, will doom us to a horrible depression and probably at the end of it, fascism. Democracy failed. Good work, baby boomers! God-forsaken fatted swine. Cramer is right about the fiscal obligation of these worthless, comical, inept piece of crap rating agencies to lower the rating on these garbage “bond insurers.” The fact these clown colleges continue to fail to do their duty is, like any display of clowns, sad and scary, not funny at all.

The problem with Cramer though he was screaming, yelling — he leads the pack of hedge fund troglodytes — howling for lower interest rates, when that is not what this country needs.

This country needs Volcker-style discipline, face in the mud discipline. We need force the speculators and the greedy fools to die type discipline, and we need it now.

But it is impossible, because the political machine is so venal that the only response to crippling deficits is voting for more deficits. More money for homeowners. More money for defense industries. More money even for illegals, if you take that piece of crap mayor in Chicago seriously. Traitors all. All of you. Anyone voting for ANYTHING when you’ve already doomed us all to bankruptcy is a traitor and a liar.

And yet we have an entire, vast class of so-called educated people swooning under the spell of Barack Obama and his utter lack of positions, his utter failure to address a single problem raised by real outsider candidates — Kucinich and Paul.

But the whole pack of you Hollywood-brainwashed, trash-eating eroding middle class, cultural illiterates will vote for this establishment puppet because he offers “Hope.” Because you’re all so badly-educated and horribly ignorant, you know more about Britney Spears and Tom Cruise than you do about the damn money and the damn laws that rules you.

Take your hope and shove it up your windpipe, you godforsaken innumerate bloated ignorant thieves. Your stupidity, your fat, blind ignorance, will doom us to a horrible depression and probably at the end of it, fascism. Democracy failed.

Good work, baby boomers! God-forsaken fatted swine.

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13750 Don Hawkins Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:21:33 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/01/the-great-credit-unwind-of-08-2/#comment-13750 Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

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