Comments on: Sympathy for the Occupiers http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:07:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Deadbeat http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11927 Deadbeat Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:55:00 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11927 Dan, You are absolutely correct. In fact I don't believe DN every interviewed M&W. They only had third party accounts. On James Petras however DN did have Petras on the show but that was restricted only to his views on Venezuela and not about his recent analysis of the "Zionist Power Configuration" in the U.S. The closest DN came to this issue was an interview with Joel Kovel but that interviews as abrupt and limited to the last 5 minutes or so of the program. DN has never devoted a major exploration to this problem. DN has given especially a lot of time to Naomi Klein dubious "Shock Doctrine" thesis and interviewed Alan Greenspan primarily because he proclaimed that the War on Iraq was about oil. Like Ron Jacobs here because Greenspan said what the apologist of Zionism wanted to hear they jumped on Greenspan's statement without scrutiny. Therefore I agree, DN demands a lot of scrutiny especially since they've position themselves as being "the exception to the rulers". Dan,

You are absolutely correct. In fact I don’t believe DN every interviewed M&W. They only had third party accounts. On James Petras however DN did have Petras on the show but that was restricted only to his views on Venezuela and not about his recent analysis of the “Zionist Power Configuration” in the U.S.

The closest DN came to this issue was an interview with Joel Kovel but that interviews as abrupt and limited to the last 5 minutes or so of the program. DN has never devoted a major exploration to this problem.

DN has given especially a lot of time to Naomi Klein dubious “Shock Doctrine” thesis and interviewed Alan Greenspan primarily because he proclaimed that the War on Iraq was about oil. Like Ron Jacobs here because Greenspan said what the apologist of Zionism wanted to hear they jumped on Greenspan’s statement without scrutiny.

Therefore I agree, DN demands a lot of scrutiny especially since they’ve position themselves as being “the exception to the rulers”.

]]> By: dan elliott http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11656 dan elliott Thu, 27 Dec 2007 00:06:06 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11656 Hehe, nothing I like better than another chance to disagree with distinguished Provost M. Cendrars:) I myself maintain we need more not less talk about "Democracy Now"', about it's "quirks" & deficiencies. You can't just dismiss the show out of hand. For instance the story they did a few days ago on the resistance to Ethnic Cleansing in New Orleans was a mindblower. But it is a fact that Goodman & associates have a certain agenda, or are so afflicted by Selective Inattention Disorder* that they cover only a certain slice of the news, leaving out a lot. For instance, while they devoted a brief segment to Dr Mearsheimer when the flap over his & Dr Walt's book was at its height, you will NEVER see James Petras, Jeff Blankfort, Hatem Bazian, Joe Anderson or Kathy Christison on DN. BTW, Goodman is as much a KPFA/Berkeley as a WBAI product. The politics of Pacifica and KPFA is a story long as your arm. How Goodman got to go national while Dennis Bernstein got the shaft is one of the juicier episodes. Gung Hay Fat Choy, Marcelle! dan:) *AKA "Navasky Syndrome". Hehe, nothing I like better than another chance to disagree with distinguished Provost M. Cendrars:) I myself maintain we need more not less talk about “Democracy Now”‘, about it’s “quirks” & deficiencies.

You can’t just dismiss the show out of hand. For instance the story they did a few days ago on the resistance to Ethnic Cleansing in New Orleans was a mindblower. But it is a fact that Goodman & associates have a certain agenda, or are so afflicted by Selective Inattention Disorder* that they cover only a certain slice of the news, leaving out a lot.

For instance, while they devoted a brief segment to Dr Mearsheimer when the flap over his & Dr Walt’s book was at its height, you will NEVER see James Petras, Jeff Blankfort, Hatem Bazian, Joe Anderson or Kathy Christison on DN.

BTW, Goodman is as much a KPFA/Berkeley as a WBAI product. The politics of Pacifica and KPFA is a story long as your arm. How Goodman got to go national while Dennis Bernstein got the shaft is one of the juicier episodes.

Gung Hay Fat Choy, Marcelle!

dan:)

*AKA “Navasky Syndrome”.

]]> By: Robert B. Livingston http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11642 Robert B. Livingston Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:30:11 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11642 Where the hammer shapes the hand Democracy Now is a strange bird-- it has often been enlightening, but on some things frustratingly obtuse. Is this a function of the cost of getting out the "truth" in America today? Success in America seems to inevitably involve bargains with the devil-- or at least a careful dance with him. We know Amy's program rocketed to success despite huge efforts to stifle her program. I hardly watch it anymore. The last time was her interview with Alan Greenspan. http://tinyurl.com/2rarqy Where the hammer shapes the hand

Democracy Now is a strange bird– it has often been enlightening, but on some things frustratingly obtuse. Is this a function of the cost of getting out the “truth” in America today?

Success in America seems to inevitably involve bargains with the devil– or at least a careful dance with him. We know Amy’s program rocketed to success despite huge efforts to stifle her program.

I hardly watch it anymore. The last time was her interview with Alan Greenspan.

http://tinyurl.com/2rarqy

]]> By: Mulga Mumblebrain http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11627 Mulga Mumblebrain Wed, 26 Dec 2007 03:59:16 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11627 The Bl4ck Pope's spray is a real scream of consciousness. I agree Janson's comments were exculpatory, to my mind, of Yankee criminal behaviour, and the tone cloying and not a little unctuous,but who's to guess at his motives. Perhaps he's deserving of criticism, but by hurling colourful invective, your point is lost is a fog of abuse, at least to my mind. Such a vehement tirade may be cathartic, and even useful if communicated privately. Janson's reply might be in kind, or then again it might be of a different type altogether. When you publish such a diatribe publicly, however, I feel you weaken your argument, and elicit perhaps undeserved sympathy for the object of your tirade. But, if it makes you feel better, you will just have to answer to your own conscience. The Bl4ck Pope’s spray is a real scream of consciousness. I agree Janson’s comments were exculpatory, to my mind, of Yankee criminal behaviour, and the tone cloying and not a little unctuous,but who’s to guess at his motives. Perhaps he’s deserving of criticism, but by hurling colourful invective, your point is lost is a fog of abuse, at least to my mind. Such a vehement tirade may be cathartic, and even useful if communicated privately. Janson’s reply might be in kind, or then again it might be of a different type altogether. When you publish such a diatribe publicly, however, I feel you weaken your argument, and elicit perhaps undeserved sympathy for the object of your tirade. But, if it makes you feel better, you will just have to answer to your own conscience.

]]> By: Mike McNiven http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11616 Mike McNiven Wed, 26 Dec 2007 01:52:31 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11616 a very relevant article: http://www.counterpunch.org/hornberger12132007.html a very relevant article:

http://www.counterpunch.org/hornberger12132007.html

]]> By: Marcelle Cendrars http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11590 Marcelle Cendrars Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:45:14 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11590 Hard to believe that people are still talking about the deficiencies of DNow. This is the outlet, after all, that gave Wesley Clarke a podium...as if he had some legitimacy. DNow serves a very limited purpose. AND it sadly reinforces some very important/disgusting "habits" that keep "activists" from breaking out of traditional forms of protest. Way back when the first started having Mike Moore on the show...they held back greatly from questioning him on a number of counts 'cause they were --at that time-- raising funds with his gear for sale. Fundraising...and redundancy...that's what they're so much about in the final analysis. -- Marcelle Hard to believe that people are still talking about the deficiencies of DNow. This is the outlet, after all, that gave Wesley Clarke a podium…as if he had some legitimacy. DNow serves a very limited purpose. AND it sadly reinforces some very important/disgusting “habits” that keep “activists” from breaking out of traditional forms of protest. Way back when the first started having Mike Moore on the show…they held back greatly from questioning him on a number of counts ’cause they were –at that time– raising funds with his gear for sale. Fundraising…and redundancy…that’s what they’re so much about in the final analysis. — Marcelle

]]> By: Lloyd Rowsey http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11586 Lloyd Rowsey Tue, 25 Dec 2007 14:00:44 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11586 And Mike McN. Considering what Jimmy posted above, that "a lot of websites have already noted that the year is ending and (you can't) find one war resister that Democracy Now featured this year," nothing gives DN that permission. And Mike McN. Considering what Jimmy posted above, that “a lot of websites have already noted that the year is ending and (you can’t) find one war resister that Democracy Now featured this year,” nothing gives DN that permission.

]]> By: Lloyd Rowsey http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11585 Lloyd Rowsey Tue, 25 Dec 2007 13:51:17 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11585 If words could do it, greybeard, "disenthrall" is the most applicable one I've ever read. Simultaneously, however, "Zionism" must be decoupled from "Judaism." Starting with what those words denote now, in 2007. I've never heard anyone argue it will be easy. Lloyd Rowsey If words could do it, greybeard, “disenthrall” is the most applicable one I’ve ever read. Simultaneously, however, “Zionism” must be decoupled from “Judaism.”

Starting with what those words denote now, in 2007.

I’ve never heard anyone argue it will be easy.

Lloyd Rowsey

]]> By: Mike McNiven http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11583 Mike McNiven Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:22:49 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11583 Thank you Mr.Petersen for tackling an issue which most do not dare to touch! One way of answering the question of "to support or not to support" the Volunteer US soldiers is to look at the peoples' reactions when the Enlisted soldiers of the Israeli military murder the Palestinians! What gives DN the permission to treat a US soldier "nicer"? Thank you Mr.Petersen for tackling an issue which most do not dare to touch!
One way of answering the question of “to support or not to support” the Volunteer US soldiers is to look at the peoples’ reactions when the Enlisted soldiers of the Israeli military murder the Palestinians!
What gives DN the permission to treat a US soldier “nicer”?

]]> By: greybeard http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11579 greybeard Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:54:05 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11579 I'm glad the discussion has started! Of course this war has Zionism (and greed) written all over it. And, most or all of the orchestraters know it. But most of the poor "grunts" do not. Those who have joined IVAW do know. Disenthrallment with this kind of "patriotism" must be the goal. But, remember, most patriots AND Zionists are passionate "believers"--and demonizing them does not assist their transformation. The task is to disenthrall them of their error . I keep working on finding ways to do that. I’m glad the discussion has started! Of course this war has Zionism (and greed) written all over it. And, most or all of the orchestraters know it. But most of the poor “grunts” do not. Those who have joined IVAW do know. Disenthrallment with this kind of “patriotism” must be the goal. But, remember, most patriots AND Zionists are passionate “believers”–and demonizing them does not assist their transformation. The task is to disenthrall them of their error . I keep working on finding ways to do that.

]]> By: Deadbeat http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11577 Deadbeat Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:24:43 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11577 Here's the link to the Blankfort discussion... <a href="http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/12/350717.shtml" rel="nofollow">SF IMC Interview - Jeffrey Blankfort</a> Here’s the link to the Blankfort discussion…

SF IMC Interview – Jeffrey Blankfort

]]> By: Deadbeat http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11576 Deadbeat Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:22:41 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11576 Another interesting discussion of Zionism in the United Stated by Jeffrey Blankfort ... <a href="SF IMC Interview - Jeffrey Blankfort: Jewish-American anti-Zionist journalist Another interesting discussion of Zionism in the United Stated by Jeffrey Blankfort …

<a href=”SF IMC Interview – Jeffrey Blankfort: Jewish-American anti-Zionist journalist

]]> By: Lloyd Rowsey http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11571 Lloyd Rowsey Tue, 25 Dec 2007 05:51:11 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11571 Amy Goodman and Democracy Now are nationwide of course, but still basically east coast, New York, if I’m not mistaken. I appreciate and applaud this article by Kim Petersen. But I also support IVAW, and I know from personal experience that breaking into public consciousness with IVAW’s message is more difficult in Los Angeles than in the northeast and upper midwest United States. For a period of about three months, I’ve been trying to convince the Editor of the Obituary Page of the Los Angeles Times that his reporters should inquire of survivors of soldiers killed in Iraq if they had ever spoken (to their survivors) of their opposition to the war, or if they belonged to any organization that advocated ending the war. Note that this would not be inquiring about whether the deceased gave less than 100% in fighting the war. It would be inquiring if an active duty American soldier in Iraq had exercised his/her constitutional right to speak out against the insanity that Bush and his henchmen had set the soldier to the task of giving 100% to accomplish. My efforts are not ended, but they have met silence, evasion, and contempt. And I hear, over and over in my mind, an old friend -- whose brother was a Marine guard in Nixon’s White House -- saying: “it is impossible not to lower the fighting morale (prowess) of ground troops if they hear criticism of the basic mission.” Which I am sure is also at the heart of the LAT’s military obituary reporting policy of total pap. (Pap - you know. These disadvantaged folks joined, gave their all, and died gloriously - or sadly; or minor variants thereof.) Well, I say horse---t. Anyone who reads the personal stories at the IVAW website knows that those of it members who were on active duty tours in Iraq did not experience opposition from their fellow soldiers, or their commanders, for their speaking out against the war. And they very sincerely felt that their moral obligation (and their soldiers’ duty) to protect their fellow soldiers required them to speak out in this manner while in country in Iraq, and then to escalate their opposition to the war to active organizing and bodily protest once they got back in the United States. The nut we have to crack is this blind conviction in California that opposition to the Iraq War by soldiers is dangerous to their fellow soldiers. I say “we have to crack.” But from what I keep reading and hearing, there’s no “we” about it. There’s only a small number of courageous and informed active duty soldiers and veterans in groups – including IVAW – who are increasing their pressure and presence excruciatingly slowly. While almost all of us...write and say and give money to…what? Amy Goodman and Democracy Now are nationwide of course, but still basically east coast, New York, if I’m not mistaken. I appreciate and applaud this article by Kim Petersen. But I also support IVAW, and I know from personal experience that breaking into public consciousness with IVAW’s message is more difficult in Los Angeles than in the northeast and upper midwest United States. For a period of about three months, I’ve been trying to convince the Editor of the Obituary Page of the Los Angeles Times that his reporters should inquire of survivors of soldiers killed in Iraq if they had ever spoken (to their survivors) of their opposition to the war, or if they belonged to any organization that advocated ending the war. Note that this would not be inquiring about whether the deceased gave less than 100% in fighting the war. It would be inquiring if an active duty American soldier in Iraq had exercised his/her constitutional right to speak out against the insanity that Bush and his henchmen had set the soldier to the task of giving 100% to accomplish.

My efforts are not ended, but they have met silence, evasion, and contempt.

And I hear, over and over in my mind, an old friend — whose brother was a Marine guard in Nixon’s White House — saying: “it is impossible not to lower the fighting morale (prowess) of ground troops if they hear criticism of the basic mission.” Which I am sure is also at the heart of the LAT’s military obituary reporting policy of total pap. (Pap – you know. These disadvantaged folks joined, gave their all, and died gloriously – or sadly; or minor variants thereof.) Well, I say horse—t. Anyone who reads the personal stories at the IVAW website knows that those of it members who were on active duty tours in Iraq did not experience opposition from their fellow soldiers, or their commanders, for their speaking out against the war. And they very sincerely felt that their moral obligation (and their soldiers’ duty) to protect their fellow soldiers required them to speak out in this manner while in country in Iraq, and then to escalate their opposition to the war to active organizing and bodily protest once they got back in the United States.

The nut we have to crack is this blind conviction in California that opposition to the Iraq War by soldiers is dangerous to their fellow soldiers. I say “we have to crack.” But from what I keep reading and hearing, there’s no “we” about it. There’s only a small number of courageous and informed active duty soldiers and veterans in groups – including IVAW – who are increasing their pressure and presence excruciatingly slowly. While almost all of us…write and say and give money to…what?

]]> By: Jimmy http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11570 Jimmy Tue, 25 Dec 2007 05:34:00 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11570 Democracy Now? There's a guy named Eli Israel. He was a soldier in Iraq. He refused to serve. Amy Goodman hasn't interviewed him and hasn't mentioned him. If you go to Iraq Veterans Against the War or Courage to Resist, you can find out about him. If you go to Democracy Now there's not a word on him. And a lot of websites have already noted that the year is ending and find one war resister that Democracy Now featured this year. You can't. Good article and we need a lot more like this. Democracy Now? There’s a guy named Eli Israel. He was a soldier in Iraq. He refused to serve. Amy Goodman hasn’t interviewed him and hasn’t mentioned him. If you go to Iraq Veterans Against the War or Courage to Resist, you can find out about him. If you go to Democracy Now there’s not a word on him. And a lot of websites have already noted that the year is ending and find one war resister that Democracy Now featured this year. You can’t. Good article and we need a lot more like this.

]]> By: Shabnam http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11559 Shabnam Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:48:59 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11559 This is very much a Zionist/imperialist war which has promised goodies for the empire after they redraw the map of the Middle East through “regime change” and division of states in the region to create Israel poppet states for Israel to helps its “greater Israel” agenda, like the tribe of Kurdistan, to create friendly states for Zionist state and push the rest of the Palestinian out of their land to make the region “safe” for investment with the resources of the region. That’s why everyone must expose this racist plan, wrapped in “democracy” propaganda rhetoric. These soldiers say: “A Therefore, after an IED attack killed some men, the incapacitated soldiers couldn’t sleep, reacted poorly, and needed medication. The platoon refused to go out on patrol … “mutiny.” The army brass responded by splitting up the closely knit group and denying promotions.” These Soldiers are there to kill in order to continue occupation of Iraq and the region. They have killed thousands of innocent people, yet they are angry at patriotic Iraqis who have attacked the enemy to force the occupier out and protect their country and its wealth and their family. The soldiers are also angry not to receive their “promotions.” This kind of talking strengthen the ignorant American’s belief when they say: “We are trying to bring democracy to Iraqi people but look what they have done to us.” So arrogant and stupid. It can’t get worse than that. Amy Goodman is not alone in this respect who tries to obfuscate the reality in Iraq. The “left” pro Zionist agenda has done the same. They have lied and cooperated with the Zionists and have participated in the design of the invasion and killing of the population for political gains. One of these “leftist” is Kenan Makiya, an architect, who is made a professor of Middle East at Brandies University. According to Moshe Vachover, a socialist and supporter of “Hands off people of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkZ2cNCYydc Iran, HOPI, like Noam Chomsky, Ron Jacobs, and many others who are coming from similar background who believes that both US imperialist and Iranian regime are dangerous. Hopi and its supporters have embraced the idea of “regime change” for Iran but they do not consider Zionist regime “dangerous” at all. In fact, HOPI, located in Britain, believes that the Islamic resistance movement is indeed very dangerous not only to the region, but also to the world. This is in fact against the world consciences which puts US and Israel as the most dangerous countries to world peace. Moshe Vachover, an Israeli, who is at the University of London, has said that the Present Iranian regime is an obstacle to US and its important junior partner, Israel. He believes that: It is wrong to think that my enemy of my enemy is my friend. But he gives leftist or former leftist such as Kenan Makiya as an example. “Some of the people who were staunch supporters of this imperialist invasion, he explains, who rightly exposed Saddam as an enemy of Iraqi people and the working class was Kennan Makiya.” Makiya former Trotskyite who wrote ‘republic of fear’ exposed the atrocity of regime of Saddam and worked with Chalabi.” Vachover thinks simple analysis such as danger of American imperialism should not make us to tune down the danger of Iranian regime and not to support “regime change” in Iran. When Noam Chosky was asked, by Christopher Lyndon, do you think American military Should leave Iraq? He did not say yes they should leave Iraq, rather he said ITS UP TO IRAQI PEOPLE. This position is very similar to George Bush’s position who has said repeatedly in the past that we leave Iraq when Iraqis want us to leave. But in the light of strong resistance and many demonstrations and even the desire of some of the Iraqi officials that American must leave Iraq Bush could not continue with this excuse and he had to abandon it since. Those who want occupiers stay in Iraq are the Kurds who are close to Israel, are supported by Noam Chomsky, and individuals like Kenan Makiya. Apparently HOPI is not the only “leftist” campaign where supports “regime change” in Iran and helps the Zionist agenda. “Campaign for peace and Democracy” is another one, in US, where is seeking “regime http://www.cpdweb.org/ http://www.payvand.com/news/06/jun/1044.html change” in Iran with similar slogan as HOPI, “Neither US aggression, nor theocratic oppression. Noam Chomsky has signed peace and democracy’s petitions and open letters against the Iranian regime. Please check their website. Noam Chomsky does not support economic sanction or divestment against Israel and do not support any petition which suggests such an action. Chomsky in an answer to Lyndon’s question that what should we do in Iran said that Iranian should take actions that make the government harsh and the opposition should http://www.radioopensource.org/chomsky-my-dinner-with-hassan/ work among the “minorities”. This is exactly Israeli’s plan who wants division of Iran like Iraq after regime change. Well, I will tell Israel and those individuals who want to hurt Iran that all of you will take this wish into your graves, one by one. This is very much a Zionist/imperialist war which has promised goodies for the empire after they redraw the map of the Middle East through “regime change” and division of states in the region to create Israel poppet states for Israel to helps its “greater Israel” agenda, like the tribe of Kurdistan, to create friendly states for Zionist state and push the rest of the Palestinian out of their land to make the region
“safe” for investment with the resources of the region. That’s why everyone must expose this racist plan, wrapped in “democracy” propaganda rhetoric. These soldiers say:
“A Therefore, after an IED attack killed some men, the incapacitated soldiers couldn’t sleep, reacted poorly, and needed medication. The platoon refused to go out on patrol … “mutiny.” The army brass responded by splitting up the closely knit group and denying promotions.”

These Soldiers are there to kill in order to continue occupation of Iraq and the region. They have killed thousands of innocent people, yet they are angry at patriotic Iraqis who have attacked the enemy to force the occupier out and protect their country and its wealth and their family. The soldiers are also angry not to receive their “promotions.” This kind of talking strengthen the ignorant American’s belief when they say: “We are trying to bring democracy to Iraqi people but look what they have done to us.” So arrogant and stupid. It can’t get worse than that.
Amy Goodman is not alone in this respect who tries to obfuscate the reality in Iraq. The “left” pro Zionist agenda has done the same. They have lied and cooperated with the Zionists and have participated in the design of the invasion and killing of the population for political gains. One of these “leftist” is Kenan Makiya, an architect, who is made a professor of Middle East at Brandies University. According to Moshe Vachover, a socialist and supporter of “Hands off people of
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkZ2cNCYydc

Iran, HOPI, like Noam Chomsky, Ron Jacobs, and many others who are coming from similar background who believes that both US imperialist and Iranian regime are dangerous. Hopi and its supporters have embraced the idea of “regime change” for Iran but they do not consider Zionist regime “dangerous” at all. In fact, HOPI, located in Britain, believes that the Islamic resistance movement is indeed very dangerous not only to the region, but also to the world. This is in fact against the world consciences which puts US and Israel as the most dangerous countries to world peace.
Moshe Vachover, an Israeli, who is at the University of London, has said that the Present Iranian regime is an obstacle to US and its important junior partner, Israel. He believes that: It is wrong to think that my enemy of my enemy is my friend. But he gives leftist or former leftist such as Kenan Makiya as an example. “Some of the people who were staunch supporters of this imperialist invasion, he explains, who rightly exposed Saddam as an enemy of Iraqi people and the working class was Kennan Makiya.” Makiya former Trotskyite who wrote
‘republic of fear’ exposed the atrocity of regime of Saddam and worked with Chalabi.” Vachover thinks simple analysis such as danger of American imperialism should not make us to tune down the danger of Iranian regime and not to support “regime change” in Iran. When Noam Chosky was asked, by Christopher Lyndon, do you think American military Should leave Iraq? He did not say yes they should leave Iraq, rather he said ITS UP TO IRAQI PEOPLE. This position is very similar to George Bush’s position who has said repeatedly in the past that we leave Iraq when Iraqis want us to leave. But in the light of strong resistance and many demonstrations and even the desire of some of the Iraqi officials that American must leave Iraq Bush could not continue with this excuse and he had to abandon it since. Those who want occupiers stay in Iraq are the Kurds who are close to Israel, are supported by Noam Chomsky, and individuals like Kenan Makiya.
Apparently HOPI is not the only “leftist” campaign where supports
“regime change” in Iran and helps the Zionist agenda. “Campaign for peace and Democracy” is another one, in US, where is seeking “regime
http://www.cpdweb.org/
http://www.payvand.com/news/06/jun/1044.html

change” in Iran with similar slogan as HOPI, “Neither US aggression, nor theocratic oppression. Noam Chomsky has signed peace and democracy’s petitions and open letters against the Iranian regime. Please check their website. Noam Chomsky does not support economic sanction or divestment against Israel and do not support any petition which suggests such an action.
Chomsky in an answer to Lyndon’s question that what should we do in Iran said that Iranian should take actions that make the government harsh and the opposition should
http://www.radioopensource.org/chomsky-my-dinner-with-hassan/
work among the “minorities”. This is exactly Israeli’s plan who wants division of Iran like Iraq after regime change. Well, I will tell Israel and those individuals who want to hurt Iran that all of you will take this wish into your graves, one by one.

]]> By: HR http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11558 HR Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:41:25 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11558 I'm afraid Democracy Now! may be succumbing to something like regulatory agency syndrome (where the regulator changes into the promoter). Maybe success is going Amy's head. On several occasions, I have emailed the program -- with never even so much as a form response -- comments regarding how they provided misinformation or seemingly bought into the right-wing rewrite of the history of the Vietnam years. I was particularly disappointed with how Amy let Wes Clark slide in her interview of him. I tried to rationalize that by concluding that she was simply letting him dig his own hole, with his own words, but that was never a very satisfying conclusion for me. And, Amy and Juan both let Lou Dobbs steamroller them in their recent debacle of an interview with him. They almost appeared awestruck, and fairly tongue-tied, in his "grand" presence. I still consider Democracy Now! better than the corporate propagandists, but that aint saying much. I’m afraid Democracy Now! may be succumbing to something like regulatory agency syndrome (where the regulator changes into the promoter). Maybe success is going Amy’s head. On several occasions, I have emailed the program — with never even so much as a form response — comments regarding how they provided misinformation or seemingly bought into the right-wing rewrite of the history of the Vietnam years. I was particularly disappointed with how Amy let Wes Clark slide in her interview of him. I tried to rationalize that by concluding that she was simply letting him dig his own hole, with his own words, but that was never a very satisfying conclusion for me. And, Amy and Juan both let Lou Dobbs steamroller them in their recent debacle of an interview with him. They almost appeared awestruck, and fairly tongue-tied, in his “grand” presence. I still consider Democracy Now! better than the corporate propagandists, but that aint saying much.

]]> By: Erroll http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11552 Erroll Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:14:57 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11552 Greybeard believes that the "patriotism" of American soldiers, as he puts it, should be acknowledged. As a Vietnam veteran, that belief makes no sense at all to me. I am not one to needlessly engage in hyperbole but one of the most powerful films that I have ever seen and which had a profound effect upon me was about a year and a half ago and that was the documentary Sir! No Sir!. The true patriots in this country are such people as former Green Beret Donald Duncan, who wisely noted in the film that "I was doing it right [referring to what he had participated in while in Vietnam] but I wasn't doing right." Or David Cline, who was seriously wounded while in Vietnam and was a long time member of the VVAW [Vietnam Veterans Against the War] and former president of Veterans for Peace, who said in the film "Your silence [referring to the soldiers] is keeping that lie going". The equivalent to the VVAW today would be the IVAW {Iraq Veterans Against the War] and such people as Camilo Mejia and Kevin Benderman, who refused to fight in Iraq and consequently were jailed by the military, just like many in the film Sir! No Sir! were, for their beliefs. Lt. Ehren Watada certainly deserves mention as being the only officer to refuse to deploy to Iraq because he recognizes that the occupation is illegal, immoral, and unjust. It is long past the point when those in the military today finally come to the realization that they are being used as cannon fodder by their government. Those who resist are the true heroes of this country but yet very few people are aware of them. The ideal thing would be for each member of the military to view Sir! No Sir! in order to understand that he or she, despite what the military wishes them to believe, has a brain and can and should say no to those illegal orders that they have been given and expected to obey by the military. The best way to bring an occupation to a halt is to have it happen from within. Greybeard believes that the “patriotism” of American soldiers, as he puts it, should be acknowledged. As a Vietnam veteran, that belief makes no sense at all to me. I am not one to needlessly engage in hyperbole but one of the most powerful films that I have ever seen and which had a profound effect upon me was about a year and a half ago and that was the documentary Sir! No Sir!. The true patriots in this country are such people as former Green Beret Donald Duncan, who wisely noted in the film that “I was doing it right [referring to what he had participated in while in Vietnam] but I wasn’t doing right.” Or David Cline, who was seriously wounded while in Vietnam and was a long time member of the VVAW [Vietnam Veterans Against the War] and former president of Veterans for Peace, who said in the film “Your silence [referring to the soldiers] is keeping that lie going”.

The equivalent to the VVAW today would be the IVAW {Iraq Veterans Against the War] and such people as Camilo Mejia and Kevin Benderman, who refused to fight in Iraq and consequently were jailed by the military, just like many in the film Sir! No Sir! were, for their beliefs. Lt. Ehren Watada certainly deserves mention as being the only officer to refuse to deploy to Iraq because he recognizes that the occupation is illegal, immoral, and unjust. It is long past the point when those in the military today finally come to the realization that they are being used as cannon fodder by their government. Those who resist are the true heroes of this country but yet very few people are aware of them. The ideal thing would be for each member of the military to view Sir! No Sir! in order to understand that he or she, despite what the military wishes them to believe, has a brain and can and should say no to those illegal orders that they have been given and expected to obey by the military. The best way to bring an occupation to a halt is to have it happen from within.

]]> By: Brian Mattox http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11551 Brian Mattox Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:03:43 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11551 Amy Goodman has been at the forefront of the anti-war movement. Clearly, she doesn't support the imperialist war in the Middle East or the killing of Iraqis. I suspect that the problem is how to conduct an interview and collect information when the group you are interviewing has committed horrific, criminal acts but have themselves become rebellious. Clearly, these soldiers have been intentionally confused and don't really understand the root cause of the war or the real purpose behind their own actions. Imperialist war is not just a crime against the victims of the invaded nations, it is also a crime against the invading nation's soldiers. Few would ever voluteer to go forth raping, torturing and killing so that the very richest citizens of their homeland could become even richer. The goal of the interview was not to attack the soldiers for their crimes, but to provide to the world a glimpse of the rebellion that is occurring inside the military. Amy Goodman has been at the forefront of the anti-war movement. Clearly, she doesn’t support the imperialist war in the Middle East or the killing of Iraqis. I suspect that the problem is how to conduct an interview and collect information when the group you are interviewing has committed horrific, criminal acts but have themselves become rebellious. Clearly, these soldiers have been intentionally confused and don’t really understand the root cause of the war or the real purpose behind their own actions. Imperialist war is not just a crime against the victims of the invaded nations, it is also a crime against the invading nation’s soldiers. Few would ever voluteer to go forth raping, torturing and killing so that the very richest citizens of their homeland could become even richer.

The goal of the interview was not to attack the soldiers for their crimes, but to provide to the world a glimpse of the rebellion that is occurring inside the military.

]]> By: Deadbeat http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11549 Deadbeat Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:36:09 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11549 Excuse the previous post. It should read as ... “Patriots” need TO be opposed and their ideas challenged. What must occur is radical dialog that confronts myths. Excuse the previous post. It should read as …

“Patriots” need TO be opposed and their ideas challenged. What must occur is radical dialog that confronts myths.

]]> By: Deadbeat http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11548 Deadbeat Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:35:03 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/12/sympathy-for-the-occupiers/#comment-11548 "Patriots" need not be opposed and their ideas confronted. What must occur is radical dialog that confronts myths. “Patriots” need not be opposed and their ideas confronted. What must occur is radical dialog that confronts myths.

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