Yes, i do know i made a typo on the John McCain deal- one of the LIBERTY survivors alerted me immediately to it, but as i cannot edit my articles once they are published elsewhere, my limitations follow me.

i would love to have an editor HELP me, for i spill thousands of cyber words from my heart and gut nearly daily; but i still work solo and am only human doing the best i can.

BUT you are WAY OFF BASE in your assertion:

“Face it, anti-semitism, Repub hate, and plain old BDS… that is your true motivator. I’m going to take a wild guess… lib democrat?
Naw, don’t answer, it’s obvious.”

I will answer:

You are dead wrong about me simpleswine!

I just submitted article 7 in my LIBERTY series to DV a few hours ago and it will BLOW YOUR BS mudslinging anti-semitic canard out of the water.

I have NO faith in the democrats to save we the people- we the people better WAKE UP and save ourselves and it begins with regaining COMMON SENSE which Bush’s Doctrine of Fear sent MIA :

“Soon after I had published the pamphlet “Common Sense” [on Feb. 14, 1776] in America, I saw the exceeding probability that a revolution in the system of government would be followed by a revolution in the system of religion… The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.”-Tom Paine

i SAY BYE BYE 2 u with the words the IDF said to me at every checkpoint as i traveled thru OPT

“HAVE A NICE DAY”

e

Thanks for all the input, and am most grateful for what you wrote ‘Deadbeat!’

Dear Jamie and Neal,

First off, my main issue is the USA government cover-up and callous and reckless disregard for our Veterans.

In checking the Congressional Record you will see the only investigation was the original Naval Court of Inquiry.

The Liberty Veterans Association has offered $10,000 reward to anyone who can prove there was ever a Congressional investigation and so far, no takers!

The Naval Court of Inquiry was done by two officers under the command of Senator John McCain, Sr. and it was concluded in six days.

Wow.. what facts! Well, not really… it was NOT John sr (Admiral McCain), NOR was it John III (that would be Senator McCain)(you know, the guy running for President?).. it WAS John jr (III’s daddy, the Admiral).. oh, and III? He was a guest of the VC during the investigation… yawn, nice try though… but it does bring into question the veracity of your “investigation”… a main fact wrong?
Face it, anti-semitism, Repub hate, and plain old BDS… that is your true motivator.

I’m going to take a wild guess… lib democrat?
Naw, don’t answer, it’s obvious.

And the continued use of “accidental” or “phony cause” is simply repugnant and, frankly, embarrasing–for him!! Notice how he ignores the salient facts about the attack? These are facts released by the Israelis themselves!! Two minutes before the attack, several ground control personnel are heard saying, “Americans? Where are there Americans?” Then the murderous attack begins, followed later by an astonishing admission by the fire control officer questioned about the identity of the ship: it’s “apparently American”.

In closing, I find it interesting that a poll taken in Israel (by Haaretz) shows approximately 3/4 of those asked believe the attack WAS DELIBERATE. Again I say to the Liberty survivors: Shalom. Woe unto the shameless naysayers…

According to the IDF, the ship was NOT misidentified by the attacking pilots — it was NEVER identified by the attacking pilots. Later, after the air attack, the Motor Torpedo Boats (MTBs) arrived and the IDF claims two of the three MTB captains misidentified USS Liberty as the Egyptian horse carrier El Quseir, as she rapidly headed north. After several tries, a torpedo finally hit. The ship came to a halt, but it didn’t sink. The MTBs continued attacking — up close and personal — and, according to the IDF, the MTB captains still didn’t realize the ship was American, despite the large American flag and large GTR5 letters on its bow. The ship launched life rafts. The MTBs shot the life rafts full of holes — not by accident, but on purpose — a prima facie war crime.

Neal, if you chose to believe the IDF’s version of events, which appears to be the case, then at the very least the attack was a reckless and wanton act that resulted in the deaths of 34 Americans — commonly known as Second Degree Murder in many states of the United States. But, alas, the Israeli military judge reviewing charges brought against the attackers, by an Israeli military prosecutor, didn’t see this way — surprise, surprise.

War is hell — especially when it’s in the form of a surprise attack, on a clear and sunny day, as you lay sunbathing on the decks of a clearly marked and neutral US Navy auxiliary vessel.

See my point above. I am not against compensation for and recognition of the suffering of people harmed by the horrors of war. But, I am against people trying to make phony, political hay out of an accident, claiming it to be deliberate – not because it was but in order to vent their bigoted views about Israel and Jews.

Again, I do appreciate that those harmed have rights. I do not, however, respect how Ms. Fleming wishes to exploit an accident for her political views that support the marchers in Durban. Such Durban marchers were bigots who carried “Kill the Jews” signs – and note above that she explicitly cites her approval for the Durban “human rights” conference, perhaps the lowest point in the history of the “human rights” movement -.

Such people at Durban were not seeking justice and human rights. They are seeking revenge. So, I oppose her brief for those killed on the Liberty which, to me, is her phony brief. Her real agenda is stated in the comments, as we managed to extract from her. Again: the events at Durban were a moral travesty, a regular hatefest under the banner of human rights. Those marchers are to human rights what the reign of terror was to the French revolution. A nightmare.

To those men still fighting for 40 years, I say “Shalom” to you all. You are fighting for justice which is richly deserved.

I have no problem compensating people for their losses. I do have a problem with people who would manipulate these real losses into a phony cause.

The problem with your point of view is that it ignores the legitimate concerns of the Israelis, which – no matter what you claim, largely out of profound ignorance – are real.

In your lexicon, a soldier – which is what Palestinians who attack Israelis actually are – who intentionally breaks into a “settlement” – in English, a village – and massacres civilians living in that village is a “hopeless militant.” No, Eileen. The person is a war criminal who is acting on the orders of a leader who is a war criminal. And, I might add: if you examine traditional just war theory, you will see that the very strategy adopted by Palestinian Arabs is unjust and illegitimate.

No. Hoping to end “occupation” does not make it alright to make civilians the target of first choice. Massacring civilians is the tactic of barbarians, not people worthy of support.

Now, that should not be read as my supporting Israel’s position regarding how it rules Palestinian Arabs or where it wants Israelis to live. It is, rather, my statement that civilians are not a legitimate target and that people who support those with that point of view are, in my view, hypocrites and, in most instances, anti-Jewish bigots.

Consider that your “hopeless” militants are, to Israelis, people who commit massacres and not by accident but with premeditation. The evidence that such is the case is overwhelming . In fact, the Hamas leadership has bragged about that to the extent that the New York Times has quoted the leadership on its use of such tactics and on its plans to ethnically cleanse the region of Jews, just as Arab Muslims have done throughout the Arab regions.

Now, you seem to think that this is all a simple thing. It is not. There are rights and wrongs all around. Saying, as you do, that you want peace and justice ought to suggest to you that justice is not a one way street. Again: we have the Palestinian leadership which refused to accept in December of 2000, in the face of President Clinton, the publicly stated position of the PLO. That, as Prince Bandar notes, means that all of the blood that has been spilt since is on the head of Arafat and those who were silent about what he allowed to occur.

Now, if you want to understand this dispute a bit better, I suggest you consider that the reason that Arafat refused his own position is that his population is not ready to settle the dispute. And, that is because they think they have, in the long term, the upper hand. And that comes from seeing 300 million Arabs and 5 million Jews. Were I on their side, I would see the matter that way also.

Hence, they take the view that by creating an unbearable situation for the Israelis, they will eventually force a crisis among the Israeli population in which they simply lose the will to defend themselves. I might add: there is historical precedent for such approach, such being a traditional tactic employed by Middle Easterners in their many wars.

What is rather awful about the war against Israel is that non-Middle Easterners who know exactly nothing about that part of the world (e.g. maybe you) project their own issues onto Middle Easterners. Consider your comment about getting to understand why 9/11 occurred. To get to the bottom of that, you need to read what those in the Jihadist movement say to each other – not what they direct to us for propaganda purposes.

Frankly, their main concern is not Israel, which they call a mere “petty” state. Which is to say, Israel is a greater concern to you than to them.

Their main concern is to restore Islamic military and political power, to eliminate Western, non-Muslim, cultural influence over Muslims and, in the end, to create circumstances where Muslims will have a realistic opportunity for conquest. If you do not believe that, then trying reading some books where they express their opinions to each other. You will see that I am correct.

What happened: Between September 1962 and March 1963, Israel attempted to disrupt Egyptian research, assisted by West German scientists, into military rockets. Israel killed a number of people during this operation, including five with a letter bomb on November 28, 1962.

Shooting Down of Libya Airlines Flight 114 (February 21, 1973)

What happened: Disoriented in a sudden sandstorm on a regular flight from Tripoli to Cairo, Flight 114 entered airspace over the Sinai peninsula, then occupied by Israel. Within minutes, Israel shot the plane down, killing 106 of the 113 on board, including an American. The place crashed only 20 kilometers from the Egyptian-Sinai line. Prime Minister Golda Meir, Defense Minister Moshe Dayan, and Transportation Minister Shimon Peres found no fault with the Israel’s actions. Yes! It is time to clarify what happened to the US Liberty!

I didn’t want to go shop as Pres. Bush instructed we the people to do and the media wasn’t asking my questions.

I wanted to know WHY did a few-and back then it was but a few-people in the world hated Americans so much that they could cold bloodedly murder innocent people.

I also wanted to do some good in the world and that lead me to the Interfaith Olive Trees Foundation for Peace/OTFFP and that lead me to journey five times into Israel Palestine.

Through a supporter and friend of OTFFP, I was shown a photo of George of Beit Jala/West Bethlehem, taken in 2000, by photographer Debbie Hill.

It is George who adorns the banner on my website.

George was captured the morning after the Israeli army destroyed his bedroom in retaliation for a few hopeless militants who had infiltrated his once peaceful Christian village to snipe across the way into the illegal settlement/colony of Gilo about a mile away.

The shrapnel that pierced the wall of George’s sanctuary read:

“Made in USA”

It was delivered via American made Apache helicopters.

The second I saw George’s eyes, in that photo that was first published by the Florida Catholic, my heart said:

“DO SOMETHING!”

What could I possibly do I wondered, but I did make a copy of the photo, put it in a frame and placed it upon the altar [a bar high table] in the upper room of my home.

Dozens of times a day, I would stop and gaze into the eyes of that little boy of the little town of Bethlehem: OCCUPIED TERRITORY and beg God to end the insane cycle of violence in the Holy Land for the sake of all the children who live there and free me from the incessant voice that demands i:

“DO SOMETHING!”

All these years later, every time I look at George’s eyes-or even think about him-the persistent voice continues the incessant refrain:

“DO SOMETHING!”

When I met George for the first time in June 2005, I vowed to him that the rest of my life will be dedicated to doing all I could to help bring about the end of the occupation of Palestine, which has now entered its 40th year.

STEP 2:

In April 2005, two months before my first trip to Israel Palestine, I tuned the TV on and the History channel appeared.

They were broadcasting a show called, “Sexpionage” all about Russian female spies and one from the Mossad.

The very clip that ran before my eyes was of Mordecahi Vanunu being transported to his closed door trial capturing his inspired move to write upon his palm: “HIJACKED” and the Rome flight number he had been on.

It was the first time I had seen that historic clip and also of Shimon Perez in 1986 stating that Israel would never be the first in the Mid East to possess nuclear weapons.

When a black and white photo of a bearded, unkempt and disheveled Vanunu filled the TV screen, I thought his eyes looked just like George’s of Beit Jala’s, and I heard in my heart:

“Do Something!”

Vanunu’s eyes are nothing like George’s, but I have been streaming video of my Vanunu interviews taped in 2005 and 2006.

Vanunu was baptized a Christian in 1986, just a few days before being kidnapped by the Mossad and spending 18 yrs. in jail for telling the world THE TRUTH that Israel had gone nuclear.

Step 3:

When I was asked to speak in California on Oct. 13, 2007 about Vanunu’s FREEDOM OF SPEECH trial and recent sentence of 6 more months in jail because of interviews he gave in 2004, and that the “NO MORE WARS FOR ISRAEL” Conference was dedicated to him and would be a fund raising opportunity:

I went with hope for doing some good. Being a Christian I have a habit of trusting people are as honest and upfront as I am, and once again learned the lesson; most are not.

But, it was at that conference that I met my first LIBERTY Vet, Phil Tounrey, another speaker.

When he said:

“It was God that kept us afloat.”

I heard in my heart:

“DO SOMETHING!”

I have a Triune Agenda:

1. DOING SOMETHING to help end the brutal occupation of Palestine,
supporting

2. supporting Vanunu in the spirit of Article 19 of the UN Universal Declaration Human Rights-which Israel agreed to uphold and was contingent upon their statehood:

“Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.”

3. Seeking JUSTICE for the LIBERTY VETS and helping them get all they have been asking of our government: an open investigation of that day in infamy when the media went MIA and Congress went limp!

e

Some people see the USS Liberty attack as a symptom of a systemic infection that’s gradually killing the State of Israel; and others see it as a localized infection that never healed correctly, but is not fatal to Israel.

As I read Elieen’s article, it appears focused on the attack and the survivors anguish — except for the last statement. Then I read Elieen’s comments, egged by Jamie and Neal, and find that perhaps there is a alternative agenda — on both sides of the fence.

Once again, justice for the survivors gets pushed into the background and politics rule the day.

With due respect, none of what you quote or cite shows anything about Israel’s nature. Your evidence shows that Israel has many enemies.

Surely, you do not expect a sane person to care that a bunch of people marched in Durban. Do you happen to recall the signs that quite a number of marchers carried (e.g. Gas the Jews; Hitler did not finish the job; etc., etc.)? Do you recall that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion that was openly sold at the conference? Such people are ordinary bigots who show, quite clearly, why Jews need a state.

Further, the evidence you cite about the settlement negotiations is contradicted by what President Clinton claims, which is that Israel agreed (but Arafat refused to agree), in December 2000, to allow a Palestinian Arab state on all of Gaza, 97% of the West Bank, to split Jerusalem with the Haram-esh-Sharif to be in Palestinian hands, to provide a land bridge to connect the West Bank and Gaza, to pay 30 billion dollars to be paid to Palestinian Arabs as compensation. In addition, Israel agreed to drop its claim for compensation related to the 856,000 Jewish refugees from Arab countries and related to the return of such people’s property which was stolen. I might add: such proposal would not, as a matter of simple examination of the map presented by President Clinton when the proposal was made, have resulted in any division of the West Bank. Such version of events, by the way, is also presented by the then Saudi Ambassador to the US, Prince Bandar, who says that Arafat lied about what occurred. And, such version of events is backed up by the transcript of the meeting, which can be obtained from the State Department. Perhaps you may want to check the US government’s records on the matter as they back up exactly what I have above written.

But, let us assume that you are correct and that Israelis intentionally divide themselves from Palestinian Arabs to act, as South African whites acted, as a master race – rather than, as I contend, the Israelis do what is necessary protect themselves from being massacred -, how, Eileen, is Israel worse than France – a country in which large contingents of citizens and non-citizens of non-European ancestry are in open rebellion against France, viewing the government as illegitimate, and, of course, are treated like dirt by the French government and people – including situating such non-Christian population in segregated, decrepit banlieues?

By your definition, France is an apartheid state. Where is the outrage from you?

Now, the simple fact in the case of Israel is that the ruling party on the Palestinian Arab side, the HAMAS, openly advocates genocide. In fact, such appears in that organization’s founding covenant. In fact, that covenant does not limit the dispute to Israel but asserts claims against Jews all over the world. And, it asserts that Jews have been behind every war since the French Revolution. In fact, the covenant considers the Protocols of the Elders of Zion to be a real document.

And, while I am writing here about the HAMAS, I note that the organization targets civilians as its policy of first choice – as openly asserted by its leaders. Needless to say, they have acted on such policy.

But, in your book, none of that seems to matter. What seems to bother you is that Israel defends its ground from lunatic, genocidal enemies who refuse to accept what, as Prince Bandar stated, amounted to their own official settlement proposal, as made by President Clinton in December of 2000 and accepted at that time by Israel.

Democracy, justice and peace will never come thru military occupation and denying the other of human rights.

A Few FACTS on WHY it is Apartheid in Israel and Palestine:

According to a UN report, Haaretz columnist Danny Rubinstein admitted that “Israel today was an apartheid State with four different Palestinian groups: those in Gaza, East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Israeli Palestinians, each of which had a different status…even if the wall followed strictly the line of the pre-1967 border, it would still not be justified.” -http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3444320,00.html

“An apartheid society is much more than just a ‘settler colony’. It involves specific forms of oppression that actively strip the original inhabitants of any rights at all, whereas civilian members of the invader caste are given all kinds of sumptuous privileges.” -”Apartheid Ancient, Past, and Present Systematic and Gross Human Rights Violations in Graeco-Roman Egypt, South Africa, and Israel/Palestine”, By Anthony Löwstedt. Page 77.

On July 5, 1950, Israel enacted the Law of Return by which Jews anywhere in the world, have a “right” to immigrate to Israel on the grounds that they are returning to their own state, even if they have never been there before. – The Link, “About That Word Apartheid”, April-May 2007, Published by Americans for Middle East Understanding, Inc.

On July 14, 1952: The enactment of the Citizenship/Jewish Nationality Law, results in Israel becoming the only state in the world to grant a particular national-religious group—the Jews—the right to settle in it and gain automatic citizenship. In 1953, South Africa’s Prime Minister Daniel Malan becomes the first foreign head of government to visit Israel and returns home with the message that Israel can be a source of inspiration for white South Africans. [IBID]

In 1962, South African Prime Minister Verwoerd declares that Jews “took Israel from the Arabs after the Arabs had lived there for a thousand years. In that I agree with them, Israel, like South Africa, is an apartheid state.” [IBID]

On August 1, 1967, Israel enacted the Agricultural Settlement Law, which bans Israeli citizens of non-Jewish nationality- Palestinian Arabs- from working on Jewish National Fund lands, well over 80% of the land in Israel. Knesset member Uri Avnery stated: “This law is going to expel Arab cultivators from the land that was formerly theirs and was handed over to the Jews.” [IBID]

On April 4, 1969, General Moshe Dayan is quoted in the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz telling students at Israel’s Technion Institute that “Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You don’t even know the names of these Arab villages, and I don’t blame you, because these geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either… There is not one single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.”[IBID]

On April 28, 1971: C. L. Sulzberger, writing in The New York Times, quoted South African Prime Minister John Vorster as saying that Israel is faced with an apartheid problem, namely how to handle its Arab inhabitants. Sulzberger wrote: “Both South Africa and Israel are in a sense intruder states. They were built by pioneers originating abroad and settling in partially inhabited areas.” [IBID]

On September 13, 1978, in Washington, D.C. The Camp David Accords are signed by Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin and witnessed by President Jimmy Carter.

The Accords reaffirm U.N. Resolutions 242 and 338, which prohibit acquisition of land by force, call for Israel’s withdrawal of military and civilian forces from the West Bank and Gaza, and prescribe “full autonomy” for the inhabitants of the territories. Begin orally promises Carter to freeze all settlement activity during the subsequent peace talks. Once back in Israel, however, the Israeli prime minister continues to confiscate, settle, and fortify the occupied territories. [IBID]

On September 13, 1985, Rep. George Crockett (D-MI), after visiting the Israeli-occupied West Bank, compares the living conditions there with those of South African blacks and concludes that the West Bank is an instance of apartheid that no one in the U.S. is talking about. [IBID]

In July 2000, President Bill Clinton convenes the Camp David II Peace Summit between Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat. Clinton—not Barak—offers Arafat the withdrawal of some 40,000 Jewish settlers, leaving more than 180,000 in 209 settlements, all of which are interconnected by roads that cover approximately 10% of the occupied land. Effectively, this divides the West Bank into at least two non-contiguous areas and multiple fragments. Palestinians would have no control over the borders around them, the air space above them, or the water reserves under them. Barak calls it a generous offer. Arafat refuses to sign. [IBID]

August 31, 2001: Durban, South Africa. Up to 50,000 South Africans march in support of the Palestinian people. In their “Declaration by South Africans on Apartheid and the Struggle for Palestine” they proclaim: “We, South Africans who lived for decades under rulers with a colonial mentality, see Israeli occupation as a strange survival of colonialism in the 21st century. Only in Israel do we hear of ‘settlements’ and ‘settlers.’ Only in Israel do soldiers and armed civilian groups take over hilltops, demolish homes, uproot trees and destroy crops, shell schools, churches and mosques, plunder water reserves, and block access to an indigenous population’s freedom of movement and right to earn a living. These human rights violations were unacceptable in apartheid South Africa and are an affront to us in apartheid Israel.” [IBID]

October 23, 2001: Ronnie Kasrils, a Jew and a minister in the South African government, co-authors a petition “Not in My Name,” signed by some 200 members of South Africa’s Jewish community, reads: “It becomes difficult, from a South African perspective, not to draw parallels with the oppression expressed by Palestinians under the hand of Israel and the oppression experienced in South Africa under apartheid rule.” [IBID]

Three years later, Kasrils will go to the Occupied Territories and conclude: “This is much worse than apartheid. Israeli measures, the brutality, make apartheid look like a picnic. We never had jets attacking our townships. We never had sieges that lasted month after month. We never had tanks destroying houses. We had armored vehicles and police using small arms to shoot people but not on this scale.” [IBID]

April 29, 2002: Boston, MA. South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu says he is “very deeply distressed” by what he observed in his recent visit to the Holy Land, adding, “It reminded me so much of what happened in South Africa.” The Nobel peace laureate said he saw “the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about. Referring to Americans, he adds, “People are scared in this country to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful—very powerful. Well, so what? The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists.” [IBID]

LEARN MUCH MORE about the Apartheid Wall which divides Palestinians from Palestinians, denies them access to their legally owned land, resources, prevents them visiting their families and holy sites:
http://www.arij.org
http://www.stopthewall.org
http://www.humanitarianinfo.org
http://www.btselem.org
http://www.sabeel.org
http://www.pengon.org

John Hrankowski
Survivor USS Liberty June 8 1967