Being as you’re so knowledgeable about the Holocaust, maybe you could be so kind as to tell me what happened to all my relatives in Europe?

According to our best records, several members of my extended family were rounded up, shipped off to Auschwitz and never returned. Presumably they were gassed or worked to death and then disposed of.

Don’t fuck with the memory of the dead. It’s very bad karma. As those knuckleheads you’ve cited above have found…

Of course if you’re mentally ill, then get some help and have a better day.

I am just lucky that I was able to find reliable sources of true information about the whole ordeal. How about you all let go of some fictional event that the Armenian Diaspora has churned out to get money from your countries? Really, keep your money for more important things in America. Like stop so many people dying in your streets from hunger and the cold and lack of health care… You need the money more than the Armenians do. And while you are at it, why don’t you try to get the worlds biggest terrorist organisation (CIA) out of other countries. We will really worship you then.

I can tell you without checking that that the “The International Association of Genocide Scholars” would be majority European Christians. I cannot for the world see how there could ever be an unbiased decision being made. If it were the Chinese or Indians who did the research, I would find them to be more accurate than a bunch of Turk-haters.

ooh look:

“To deny the Armenian genocide “is like Holocaust denial,” said Gregory Stanton, vice president of the association, president of Genocide Watch and a professor of human rights at the University of Mary Washington in Virginia. ”

How dare you compare the Holocaust with such a fictional story!!!

If we were so brutal, all these races would have disappeared. They would not be around now howling like wolves ready to attack and kill the hand that fed them for so many centuries. Yes, the Ottoman Empire was one of the oldest empires in the world. And all the people in the Empire lived in relative peace. I will even go so far as to say that they were able to practice their religions with more freedom than they would have had they been governed by Christian empires. I will even go further and say that they lived much better lives than the Turks.

If you want to look for brutal, go study the Christian Crusades and the cruelty they inflicted on the Turks. Now that is brutal. And funny enough they took so much back with them that they finally started having culture and cleanliness. Did you know that Europeans didn’t even have proper toilets until a few centuries ago…. And they call the East barbaric.

I am getting sick of this all. You want us to sit back and accept any lie that you all spin out. When we are quiet, we are considered to be guilty. When we speak up, we are considered to be guilty. We have thrown the gauntlet and said, “If we are guilty of committing genocide, take this matter to the international courts AND PROVE IT”. If the Armenians have any balls, they will accept our challenge. But they don’t so I’m not going to be holding my breath.

Again and again I will say it. PROVE the genocide claim in an unbiased international court. Otherwise shut up.

From your writing in the above post (Leyla said on November 14th, 2007 at 7:37 pm #) , it is apparent that your are confused and clearly misinformed.

I know it is hard for people in Turkey to accept the facts of their history, when their Turkish state dictates falsified history in its educational school systems. Even impose Turkish laws that forbid the mere mention of ‘Armenian Genocide’ let alone have a discussion of it. That law is enforced by Turkish penal code #301 and entails severe punishments.

There is no excuse for any Turk t o remain ignorant about the Turkish history. Especially those Turks who have access to freedom of speech and freedom of expression outside of Turkey, with access to wealth of knowledge and information.

You see, genocide denial is the last phase of the crime. The perpetrator denies everything – and that is what you and the Turkish government are doing. That’s what a denialist does, raise doubt about the facts, create disputes, suggest more research, more study, and more proof needed, etc….

My suggestion is for you to go to a library and read up on history and on-going Turkish genocide of Armenians. I’d be happy to refer you to hundreds of studies on the Armenian genocide. They all have the verdict: Turkey guilty of genocide.

Here is a an excerpt from a news article today, by David Olson from the Press-Enterprise:

The International Association of Genocide Scholars unanimously approved a 2005 letter stating that “the overwhelming opinion of scholars who study genocide” is that the murders were genocidal.

To deny the Armenian genocide “is like Holocaust denial,” said Gregory Stanton, vice president of the association, president of Genocide Watch and a professor of human rights at the University of Mary Washington in Virginia.

… many leading scholars say the massacres clearly fit the definition of genocide.

So, you see Leyla, you just need to get educated on the facts of the brutal, and oppressive history of the Turks. And if you happen to be in Eastern Turkey (Armenia) just ask any elderly resident, they will not only account to you the horrors your Turkish ancestors inflicted on the Armenians, but they will even point you to the sites and killing fields.

You owe it to yourself to learn the truth.

I like the way the so-called “Armenian Genocide” is treated as being concrete truth when there has never really been any valid non-biased research on the matter. Even if the Russian and Turkish archives have been opened up for use for research, the Armenian archives (anywhere in the world – including the USA) has not been opened up. They will probably never be opened. But imagine, there would be 3 sources where data can be compared. Information could not be fudged but if any is missing, it will become clear very quickly.

If the Armenians (who happen to be extremely rich thanks to American and European aid) have enough funds to take this matter to international courts to have it proven once and for all. Have they done this do you think? No. Do they accept any attempts of the matter being investigated, discussed or researched by unbiased parties? No. All they do is repeat the same accusations again and again hoping that if it mentioned enough times then it will be believed whether it is true or not.

How hard is it to understand? Anyone with even a mild understanding of maths would see that there is something terribly wrong with the numbers? Based on the population counts made by the Ottomans, French, English and the Armenians themselves the numbers cannot be more than 1.6 million (and that is the most inflated figure provided by the Armenians). If 1.5 million had been killed/died, how can so many Armenians exist today based on just 100,000m Armenians surviving? What is even more strange is that I have seen some articles by Armenians bumping this figure up to 2 million. Even if we wanted to kill them do you think that we would have wasted precious bullets that we needed on the Armenians when we needed armaments for the war. Having the Armenians relocated was the best option for us.

As much as you would like to believe the Christian Armenians and see the Muslim Turks as the enemy, this does not change what happened at that time. You all seem to forget that the Ottoman Empire was in the midst of war with the enemy attacking it from all angles. And yes the Assyrians and the Pontians also contributed to quite a few Turkish deaths. True they were Turkish Muslim lives and probably don’t mean very much to you but they mean a lot to us. I come from a town in Ankara. Our towns and villages where we live were not burned to the ground but all our men were sent to the battle fronts to protect our country. There were no males and hardly any food left as the food was being sent to the soldiers – and we were the lucky ones in our country. Can you imagine the horror faced by the not-so-lucky ones?

Despite our suffering during that time, do you think we go around crying that the Armenians, Greeks, Arabs, Pontians, Assyrians, Europeans and Russians have killed us and that we deserve to be recompensated? NO. It was a war and unfortunately we have decided to go with the European idea that all is fair in war and let bygones be bygones. Unfortunately we have an extremely weak government that would do very little to help its people. The reason why so many are accusing us of any hint of a genocide (I’m sure that some of you probably think that we committed the Jewish Genocide as well, why not, we seem to be accused of any other ones). What I detest the most is the way the Armenians keep comparing themselves to the Jews. The Jews did not take up arms and kill the people of the country they lived in. They were peaceful and wanted to live a peaceful life. They did not want to carve out a new country for themselves – remember I am talking about WWII. Most Armenians in the Ottoman Empire were also peaceful and were happy with their lives – why shouldn’t they be, they lived better lives than the Turks did. Unfortunately the henchmen lived amongst them ( a little like the PKK are doing now). We had no choice but to remove them all. Most Armenians that live in Turkey now (including the 40,000 or so that work illegally) are happy. There will always be a small percentage that will never be happy until all Turks are killed or leave the region altogether. I just hope that you stop listening to the small minority and listen to what the wider group feel.

This brings me to the Kurds. Most Turks are related to Kurds in some way or another. There is so many intermarriages happening that if such a country as Kurdistan ever legally gets created, it will be very difficult to separate the Kurds from the Turks in Turkey. And you will have a lot of trouble getting them to move to this new country. Again, imagine if the American Indians started taking up arms and started killing your people? Do you think that they would be alive?? If the USA stopped arming the PKK terrorists there would be peace in the region. I’m sure that wouldn’t please Mr Bush et al, however, that whole area would live in a better state than what they do now – even the minorities. A lot of Kurds have suffered in the region and the best thing to happen to them has happened, they moved away from the region and therefore away from the clan leaders. The biggest enemy of the Kurds are not the Turks or the Iraqis or even the Iranians – it is their own clan leaders. When they can make their own decisions for themselves, they start to become more pleasant and more peaceful. The laws in Turkey have given them the freedom to speak their own language and use their own names (one hopes that Greece will provide the same freedom to its Turkish population one day). Most Turks have never agreed to this law anyway, it was ridiculous. However, living abroad as I do I would find it strange if we were told that we could learn and speak our own language and won’t need to learn English at all. Australia is looking at making English compulsory for the Aborigines just as Turkey sees Turkish as being compulsory to all the minorities. I don’t see why Kurds should be any different to the many minorities that live in Turkey. A lot of injustice has been done to the Kurds, but don’t forget, they are not a weak race that would take anything lying down. They give as good as they get. If you have sympathy for the Kurds (as you should) you must have some sympathy for the many innocent Turkish lives taken by the Kurds as well. By the way I have Kurdish ancestors too and like most Turks/Kurds in Turkey we want real peace without any interference from Europe or America.

I would love to say more and probably could but I feel like I’m chasing my tail. The general feeling amongst the Turks is that because we are Turkish, nothing we say is taken as being even remotely true (even if it is). I am getting the Turkish Diaspora feeling again….

Perish the thought!

Stay tuned for Ernst Zundel and David Duke!

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/europe/news/article_1277995.php

German Holocaust denier Rudolf jailed for 30 months

Mar 15, 2007, 16:47 GMT

Mannheim, Germany – A 42-year-old German neo-Nazi who claims the Holocaust never happened was jailed for 30 months by a court in the south-western city of Mannheim on Thursday.

At the start of his trial in November, Germar Rudolf had called the Holocaust ‘a gigantic fraud.’ He was last year expelled from the United States to Germany, which charged him with incitement to racial hatred.

A chemist, Rudolf has published pseudo-scientific claims that it was impossible that Zyklon-B poison was used in the gas chambers at the Nazis’ Auschwitz death camp.

Denial of the Holocaust is punishable in Germany with up to five years in jail. …

If we are unwilling to stand up for ourselves – to have the courage of our convictions – then it is absurd to expect others to take us, our issues, or our plights seriously. And if we are *only* for ourselves, then we’re not very good citizens.

It is astonishing that Abraham Foxman’s Anti-Defamation League justifies his choice of words by referring to the Armenian genocide as a “consequence” of World War I, and describes it “tantamount to genocide,” as this is in obvious breach of article II of the U.N. genocide convention of 1948.

The 1948 U.N. convention on prevention of genocide cites the Armenian genocide as an example, and uses the word “intent” and not “consequence,” a key element that constitutes genocide.

ADL’s reasoning — “If the word genocide had existed then, they would have called it genocide” — is misguided. In a 1949 CBS News interview, Dr. Raphael Lemkin, a lawyer of Polish-Jewish descent, explained that he became interested in the barbarity that befell the Armenians before World War II and that he coined the word genocide to describe what had happened to the Armenians.

Dr. Raphael Lemkin coined the word Genocide in the late 30′s / early 40′s to describe the Armenian experience – the intent, deliberate, systematic, planned, perpetrated, extermination of the Armenians at the hands of the Turks.

The word “holocaust” has been widely used since the 17th century to refer to the violent death of a large number of people. Before World War II the word was used by Winston Churchill and others to describe the Armenian Genocide of World War I.

We cannot help but ask ourselves, had the world community used its full energy and resources to speak out against the Armenian genocide, might the Holocaust have been prevented?

“The world doesn’t take seriously what an Israeli leader or an American Jewish macher has to say about the Six Million, not when it sees that same Israeli leader and American Jewish macher shushing everyone over the murders of 1.5 million other innocents.” – Jerusalem post

“If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when? – Rabbi Hillel

Both are genocide deniers.

Genocide denial is the worst type of hate crime. Not only does it murder the historical memories of the victims, but it also murders the victims a second time by erasing them from the pages of history.

We were, and continue to be, intensely offended by Ahmadinejad for his public denying of the Holocaust last November 2006.

We are similarly deeply offended by Foxman’s ADL for publicly denying the Armenian genocide and actively working against the Congressional affirmation of it.

By the silence of Israel and the American Jewry – acting as a proxy for Turkey, by actively lobbying Congress to deny the Armenian genocide – ADL’s Abraham Foxman sends a clear message to Iran’s Ahmedinajad that he too can commit a genocide and get away with it.

It is very clear who Ahmadinejad has in mind and which country he wants to wipe out of existence. So, if Iran has geo-political backing it can commit & deny its own Genocide. By denying one genocide you deny all of them. By not condemning one you encourage new ones.

LUV YOUR SOURCES !!!!!!

From progressive folks with genuine Integrity.

Here’s a little more about your hero: Alfred Strom. And David Irving’s no slouch in the integrity dep’t either.

http://www.charlottesvillenewsplex.tv/news/headlines/10206856.html

Strom & Prussian Blue? I Just Knew It!

Strom enticement, intimidation trial begins
by Lisa Provence

The founder of the white supremacist National Vanguard, Kevin Strom, 50, went on trial today for enticing a minor and intimidating a witness– the witness being his wife, Elisha Strom.

In a quavery voice, Elisha Strom, 32, testified about finding her husband naked and aroused, looking at photos of two girls whose heads had been transposed onto naked bodies. “They didn’t look right,” said Elisha of the girls, who were affiliated with the National Vanguard. “Their bodies didn’t match what they look like.”

Earlier, in motions regarding the introduction of the photos of the two girl singers, Judge Norman Moon declared that it was not illegal to look at the photos and said, “It’s not against the law to sit there naked.”

Elisha Strom also told of awaking October 17, 2005, to find her husband looking at images of a little girl. “I didn’t know what to do,” she testified. “I wanted to talk to someone.”

She had the phone in hand when her husband said he wasn’t going to let her make a call and then began choking her. “I hit him with the telephone,” she testified. His parents took a bloody Kevin Strom to the hospital.

…

http://www.freedomliberationmovement.com/html/Jewish_Oligarchs.htm
http://www.forward.com/articles/7051/
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/03/11/Oligarchs071103.html
LONDON (Agence France-Presse) — Control of Mikhail Khodorkovsky’s shares in the Russian oil giant Yukos have passed to renowned banker [the Rt Hon Lord] Jacob Rothschild, under a deal they concluded prior to Mr. Khodorkovsky’s arrest, the Sunday Times reported.
http://www.rense.com/general44/aretheisraeliswilling.htm
According to a Nov. 3 Agence France-Presse story, Khodorkovsky made a deal with Jacob Rothschild this year that control of the YUKOS giant would pass to Rothschild in the event of Khodorkovsky’s arrest. However, the Russian government has frozen all YUKOS assets for the time being.

It is significant that YUKOS’s liberal pressure group, the Open Russia Foundation, is completely controlled by Rothschild now that its founder is in jail. As their official mission statement reads, “The motivation for the establishment of the Open Russia Foundation is the wish to foster enhanced openness, understanding and integration between the people of Russia and the rest of the world.”

Their board of trustees includes Rothschild and Henry Kissinger. The Washington, D.C. launch of the organization included Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) and Librarian of Congress James Billington, one of the leading voices against Russian traditionalism in the academic establishment. Significantly, the Open Russia Foundation recently provided Yale University with substantial grants to study the Russian economy as well as providing the Carnegie Foundation with 3 percent of its entire operating budget.

We read and seek materials of interest. We don’t pay any attention to the Zionist smear tactics to prevent knowledge on certain issues because knowledge is POWER and against IGNORANCE where Zionist feeds on. If we listen to rubbish of the Zionists then we should not read Werner Sombart (The Jews and Modern Capitalism), Martin Heidegger, Friedrich Nietzsche, Roger Garudy, and ………..but we are determined to obtain knowledge wherever it can be found, the final judgment is OURS and only OURS.