<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Raining on the Thanksgiving Day Parade</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:26:36 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-33906</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-33906</guid>
		<description>one caveat,
euros who conquered americas, africa, much of asia  r not, in my view, exceptional in their behavior.
doing crimes against weak pops had been going on for at least 4K.
according to historians, mongols headed by genghis, assyrians, avars, germans &#039;39-45, croats, russians, babylonians, et al have behaved in similar or same ways as amers.
it is panhuman trait to rob/kill/enslave, etcetc.
in case of amers, they obviously felt that they will never get punished for killing some 18mn redpeople out of 19mn or so.
and since redpeople were so primitive/wild in amers eyes, it wasn&#039;t that much difficult to rationalize it.
another factor in murderous behavior by so many folks is that they believe, having been educated by clero-despotic class,  fiercely in own independence even of natural forces which includes morality.  
yet the fact is, we&#039;v always and r now totally interdependent. we have, i assert, survived on this planet and generated many folks, because ages ago people understood the value of being interdependent.
having nukes, makes us interdependent; in it&#039;s  use as well as getting rid of them. thnx 
there is much dislike for dark people.  yet w.o them we wld have never survived nor multiplied.
america and its people r not independent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one caveat,<br />
euros who conquered americas, africa, much of asia  r not, in my view, exceptional in their behavior.<br />
doing crimes against weak pops had been going on for at least 4K.<br />
according to historians, mongols headed by genghis, assyrians, avars, germans &#8216;39-45, croats, russians, babylonians, et al have behaved in similar or same ways as amers.<br />
it is panhuman trait to rob/kill/enslave, etcetc.<br />
in case of amers, they obviously felt that they will never get punished for killing some 18mn redpeople out of 19mn or so.<br />
and since redpeople were so primitive/wild in amers eyes, it wasn&#8217;t that much difficult to rationalize it.<br />
another factor in murderous behavior by so many folks is that they believe, having been educated by clero-despotic class,  fiercely in own independence even of natural forces which includes morality.<br />
yet the fact is, we&#8217;v always and r now totally interdependent. we have, i assert, survived on this planet and generated many folks, because ages ago people understood the value of being interdependent.<br />
having nukes, makes us interdependent; in it&#8217;s  use as well as getting rid of them. thnx<br />
there is much dislike for dark people.  yet w.o them we wld have never survived nor multiplied.<br />
america and its people r not independent.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: d.</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9398</link>
		<dc:creator>d.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9398</guid>
		<description>good to read some sanity sometimes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good to read some sanity sometimes!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9218</link>
		<dc:creator>John Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 18:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9218</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s some more tidbits of cruelty from other societies to flog oneself over, even if one  wasn&#039;t a direct participant.  Sadly enough, it appears that the U.S. wasn&#039;t involved.

From Historyworld. Net:http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ac84

Cuzco and the Incas: 15th century AD

In the early 15th century the town of Cuzco is a small place, the headquarters of one of many competing tribes within the region which was once ruled from Tiwanaku. But in about 1438 a younger son of the ruler defeats the neighbouring Chanca people, usurps power, gives himself the resounding title Pachacuti (&#039;transformer of the earth&#039;) and begins an astonishing process of military expansion. The policy is continued by his son, Topa Inca (also sometimes called Tupac Inca). 

By the end of two long reigns (about fifty-five years in all) the Cuzco dynasty, known as the Incas, are in loose control of an empire stretching from Quito in modern Ecuador to the Maule river in Chile - a distance of nearly 2500 miles. 
    
...

The Inca expansion also shares some features with Genghis Khan&#039;s programme of conquest. A few brutal military victories suffice to terrify other petty rulers into cooperation, and the success of the Incas derives partly from excellent roads and communications. 

 From  David A. Yeagley :  http://www.badeagle.com/
 David A. Yeagley was born in Oklahoma City. He is a direct descendent of Bad Eagle (quin-ne kish-su-it), headman of a Antelope (kwerharenu) Comanche band (1839-1909). Yeagley is an enrolled member of the Comanche Tribe, Lawton, Oklahoma.

Topic: A Comanche Look At Columbus, Why I Salute Cristobal Colon:  Posted: Oct. 10 2002,2:11

By the 17th century Spanish culture was everywhere in the Southwest, but when Comanches first encountered it we did not see it as a restriction or an inhibition.  We saw a grand opportunity, and it changed our future.  

We stole some mesteños (Spanish mustangs), and the next thing you know, we were making raids in New Mexico in 1705.   In little more than generation later, we were &quot;lords of the south plains.&quot;  ...
 
From A book review of North American Indigenous Warfare and Ritual Violence
Edited by Richard J. Chacon; Rubén G. Mendoza

Despite evidence of warfare and violent conflict in pre-Columbian North America, scholars argue that the scale and scope of Native American violence is exaggerated. They contend that scholarly misrepresentation has denigrated indigenous peoples when in fact they lived together in peace and harmony. In rebutting that contention, this groundbreaking book presents clear evidence—from multiple academic disciplines—that indigenous populations engaged in warfare and ritual violence long before European contact. In ten well-documented and thoroughly researched chapters, fourteen leading scholars dispassionately describe sources and consequences of Amerindian warfare and violence, including ritual violence. Originally presented at an American Anthropological Association symposium, their findings construct a convincing case that bloodshed and killing have been woven into the fabric of indigenous life in North America for many centuries...

From  H. B. Nicholson, &quot;Aztec,&quot; World Book Online Americas Edition 
http://houck.salkeiz.k12.or.us/student.assignments/WB.Aztecs/aztec.htm

Warfare was considered a religious duty by the Aztec. They fought not only to enlarge their empire but also to take prisoners to sacrifice to the gods. The highest goal for a young man was to be a successful warrior. Men who took many captives in battle were rewarded. They received land, high social rank, and important government offices.

Aztec methods of combat were designed to capture prisoners rather than to kill. ... 


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
The Armenian Genocide ... known as the Armenian Holocaust, Great Calamity ... or the Armenian Massacres of 1915 — refers to the systematic slaughter and fatal deportation of hundreds of thousands to over a million Armenians as well as the intentional and irreversible ruination of their economic and cultural life environments under the government of the Committee of Union and Progress during the First World War from 1915 to 1918 in the Ottoman Empire.

The Armenian Genocide is widely acknowledged to have been the first true genocide of the twentieth century.[1][2]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

For Iris Chang&#039;s book, see The Rape of Nanking (book).
The Nanking Massacre 
 
The Nanking Massacre, commonly known as the Rape of Nanking, was an infamous war crime committed by the Japanese military in the capital of Nanjing, after it fell to the Imperial Japanese Army on December 13, 1937. The duration of the massacre is not clearly defined, although the violence lasted well into the next six weeks, until early February 1938.

Rwandan Genocide
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Rwandan Genocide was the 1994 mass killing of the hundreds of thousands of ethnic Tutsis and moderate Hutu sympathizers in Rwanda and was the largest atrocity during the Rwandan Civil War. This genocide was mostly carried out by two extremist Hutu militia groups, the Interahamwe and the Impuzamugambi, during about 100 days from April 6 through mid-July, 1994. At least 500,000 Tutsis and thousands of moderate Hutus died in the genocide.[1] Some estimates put the death toll between 800,000 and 1,000,000.[2]

Flogging oneself over atrocities that happened long ago is not helpful in fact, it is nothing more than mental masturbation.  Remembering it is helpful, preventing it in the future it is helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s some more tidbits of cruelty from other societies to flog oneself over, even if one  wasn&#8217;t a direct participant.  Sadly enough, it appears that the U.S. wasn&#8217;t involved.</p>
<p>From Historyworld. Net:http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ac84</p>
<p>Cuzco and the Incas: 15th century AD</p>
<p>In the early 15th century the town of Cuzco is a small place, the headquarters of one of many competing tribes within the region which was once ruled from Tiwanaku. But in about 1438 a younger son of the ruler defeats the neighbouring Chanca people, usurps power, gives himself the resounding title Pachacuti (&#8217;transformer of the earth&#8217;) and begins an astonishing process of military expansion. The policy is continued by his son, Topa Inca (also sometimes called Tupac Inca). </p>
<p>By the end of two long reigns (about fifty-five years in all) the Cuzco dynasty, known as the Incas, are in loose control of an empire stretching from Quito in modern Ecuador to the Maule river in Chile &#8211; a distance of nearly 2500 miles. </p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>The Inca expansion also shares some features with Genghis Khan&#8217;s programme of conquest. A few brutal military victories suffice to terrify other petty rulers into cooperation, and the success of the Incas derives partly from excellent roads and communications. </p>
<p> From  David A. Yeagley :  <a href="http://www.badeagle.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.badeagle.com/</a><br />
 David A. Yeagley was born in Oklahoma City. He is a direct descendent of Bad Eagle (quin-ne kish-su-it), headman of a Antelope (kwerharenu) Comanche band (1839-1909). Yeagley is an enrolled member of the Comanche Tribe, Lawton, Oklahoma.</p>
<p>Topic: A Comanche Look At Columbus, Why I Salute Cristobal Colon:  Posted: Oct. 10 2002,2:11</p>
<p>By the 17th century Spanish culture was everywhere in the Southwest, but when Comanches first encountered it we did not see it as a restriction or an inhibition.  We saw a grand opportunity, and it changed our future.  </p>
<p>We stole some mesteños (Spanish mustangs), and the next thing you know, we were making raids in New Mexico in 1705.   In little more than generation later, we were &#8220;lords of the south plains.&#8221;  &#8230;</p>
<p>From A book review of North American Indigenous Warfare and Ritual Violence<br />
Edited by Richard J. Chacon; Rubén G. Mendoza</p>
<p>Despite evidence of warfare and violent conflict in pre-Columbian North America, scholars argue that the scale and scope of Native American violence is exaggerated. They contend that scholarly misrepresentation has denigrated indigenous peoples when in fact they lived together in peace and harmony. In rebutting that contention, this groundbreaking book presents clear evidence—from multiple academic disciplines—that indigenous populations engaged in warfare and ritual violence long before European contact. In ten well-documented and thoroughly researched chapters, fourteen leading scholars dispassionately describe sources and consequences of Amerindian warfare and violence, including ritual violence. Originally presented at an American Anthropological Association symposium, their findings construct a convincing case that bloodshed and killing have been woven into the fabric of indigenous life in North America for many centuries&#8230;</p>
<p>From  H. B. Nicholson, &#8220;Aztec,&#8221; World Book Online Americas Edition<br />
<a href="http://houck.salkeiz.k12.or.us/student.assignments/WB.Aztecs/aztec.htm" rel="nofollow">http://houck.salkeiz.k12.or.us/student.assignments/WB.Aztecs/aztec.htm</a></p>
<p>Warfare was considered a religious duty by the Aztec. They fought not only to enlarge their empire but also to take prisoners to sacrifice to the gods. The highest goal for a young man was to be a successful warrior. Men who took many captives in battle were rewarded. They received land, high social rank, and important government offices.</p>
<p>Aztec methods of combat were designed to capture prisoners rather than to kill. &#8230; </p>
<p>From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide</a><br />
The Armenian Genocide &#8230; known as the Armenian Holocaust, Great Calamity &#8230; or the Armenian Massacres of 1915 — refers to the systematic slaughter and fatal deportation of hundreds of thousands to over a million Armenians as well as the intentional and irreversible ruination of their economic and cultural life environments under the government of the Committee of Union and Progress during the First World War from 1915 to 1918 in the Ottoman Empire.</p>
<p>The Armenian Genocide is widely acknowledged to have been the first true genocide of the twentieth century.[1][2]</p>
<p>From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre</a></p>
<p>For Iris Chang&#8217;s book, see The Rape of Nanking (book).<br />
The Nanking Massacre </p>
<p>The Nanking Massacre, commonly known as the Rape of Nanking, was an infamous war crime committed by the Japanese military in the capital of Nanjing, after it fell to the Imperial Japanese Army on December 13, 1937. The duration of the massacre is not clearly defined, although the violence lasted well into the next six weeks, until early February 1938.</p>
<p>Rwandan Genocide<br />
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>
<p>The Rwandan Genocide was the 1994 mass killing of the hundreds of thousands of ethnic Tutsis and moderate Hutu sympathizers in Rwanda and was the largest atrocity during the Rwandan Civil War. This genocide was mostly carried out by two extremist Hutu militia groups, the Interahamwe and the Impuzamugambi, during about 100 days from April 6 through mid-July, 1994. At least 500,000 Tutsis and thousands of moderate Hutus died in the genocide.[1] Some estimates put the death toll between 800,000 and 1,000,000.[2]</p>
<p>Flogging oneself over atrocities that happened long ago is not helpful in fact, it is nothing more than mental masturbation.  Remembering it is helpful, preventing it in the future it is helpful.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rosemarie jackowski</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9179</link>
		<dc:creator>rosemarie jackowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9179</guid>
		<description>I am a fan of Jensen so I don&#039;t know how I could have missed reading his 2001 article. I will search it out.  I don&#039;t know how anyone could dispute the causes of 9/11 and the fact that the usa has a long history of much worse.  9/11 was BLOWBACK predicted by the CIA and others years before 9/11 happened.  Jensen recommends Ward Churchill&#039;s &#039;A Little Matter of Genocide&#039;. Churchill is another who calls it like it is and then pays a high price. Why don&#039;t those in the anti-war movement (if there is an anti-war movement) stand with those such as Churchill, Jensen, and others when they are persecuted for speaking the truth?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a fan of Jensen so I don&#8217;t know how I could have missed reading his 2001 article. I will search it out.  I don&#8217;t know how anyone could dispute the causes of 9/11 and the fact that the usa has a long history of much worse.  9/11 was BLOWBACK predicted by the CIA and others years before 9/11 happened.  Jensen recommends Ward Churchill&#8217;s &#8216;A Little Matter of Genocide&#8217;. Churchill is another who calls it like it is and then pays a high price. Why don&#8217;t those in the anti-war movement (if there is an anti-war movement) stand with those such as Churchill, Jensen, and others when they are persecuted for speaking the truth?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rosemarie jackowski</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9178</link>
		<dc:creator>rosemarie jackowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9178</guid>
		<description>I am a fan of Jensen so I don&#039;t know how I could have missed reading his 2001 article. I will search it out.  I don&#039;t know how anyone could dispute the causes of 9/11 and the fact that the usa has a long history of much worse.  9/11 was BLOWBACK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a fan of Jensen so I don&#8217;t know how I could have missed reading his 2001 article. I will search it out.  I don&#8217;t know how anyone could dispute the causes of 9/11 and the fact that the usa has a long history of much worse.  9/11 was BLOWBACK</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: hp</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9136</link>
		<dc:creator>hp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9136</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget, a lot of people, many in very high positions of influence in our government , have dual citizenship. When you look at these &quot;dual-citizen Americans,&quot; and their views, it becomes apparent they aren&#039;t dual at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t forget, a lot of people, many in very high positions of influence in our government , have dual citizenship. When you look at these &#8220;dual-citizen Americans,&#8221; and their views, it becomes apparent they aren&#8217;t dual at all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: HR</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9070</link>
		<dc:creator>HR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9070</guid>
		<description>Sounds like Jensen&#039;s is a pretty realistic world view.  Maybe the university president ought to read a little history.  Blinding oneself by waving the flag and adopting the &quot;my country, right or wrong&quot; outlook is not patriotism, but is only ignorance of the sort that has culminated (so far) in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians in a country that had nothing to do with the attack in New York.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like Jensen&#8217;s is a pretty realistic world view.  Maybe the university president ought to read a little history.  Blinding oneself by waving the flag and adopting the &#8220;my country, right or wrong&#8221; outlook is not patriotism, but is only ignorance of the sort that has culminated (so far) in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians in a country that had nothing to do with the attack in New York.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: heike</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9069</link>
		<dc:creator>heike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9069</guid>
		<description>Thr following blurb in Wikipedia gives some indication as to Mr. Jensen&#039;s world view:


According to Jensen, the United States was &quot;just as guilty&quot; as the hijackers in committing acts of violence. Jensen wrote that the Al Qaeda attack on the World Trade Center and The Pentagon &quot;was no more despicable than the massive acts of terrorism...that the U.S. government has committed during my lifetime.&quot; [1]

Letters to the editor and reportedly over 4,000 complaints to Jensen himself denounced his article as insensitive and extremist, coming just three days after the attack. Several letters also criticized the newspaper for printing the op-ed piece at all.[2] 

UT President Larry Faulkner wrote:

In his Sept. 14 [2001]Outlook article “ U.S. just as guilty of committing own violent acts,” Robert Jensen was identified as holding a faculty appointment at the University of Texas at Austin. Jensen made his remarks entirely in his capacity as a free citizen of the United States, writing and speaking under the protection of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. No aspect of his remarks is supported, condoned or officially recognized by The University of Texas at Austin. He does not speak in the University’s name and may not speak in its name. Using the same liberty, I convey my personal judgment that Jensen is not only misguided, but has become a fountain of undiluted foolishness on issues of public policy. Students must learn that there is a good deal of foolish opinion in the popular media and they must become skilled at recognizing and discounting it. I, too, was disgusted by Jensen’s article, but I also must defend his freedom to state his opinion. The First Amendment is the bedrock of American liberty.


I can hardly improve on President Faulkner&#039;s words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thr following blurb in Wikipedia gives some indication as to Mr. Jensen&#8217;s world view:</p>
<p>According to Jensen, the United States was &#8220;just as guilty&#8221; as the hijackers in committing acts of violence. Jensen wrote that the Al Qaeda attack on the World Trade Center and The Pentagon &#8220;was no more despicable than the massive acts of terrorism&#8230;that the U.S. government has committed during my lifetime.&#8221; [1]</p>
<p>Letters to the editor and reportedly over 4,000 complaints to Jensen himself denounced his article as insensitive and extremist, coming just three days after the attack. Several letters also criticized the newspaper for printing the op-ed piece at all.[2] </p>
<p>UT President Larry Faulkner wrote:</p>
<p>In his Sept. 14 [2001]Outlook article “ U.S. just as guilty of committing own violent acts,” Robert Jensen was identified as holding a faculty appointment at the University of Texas at Austin. Jensen made his remarks entirely in his capacity as a free citizen of the United States, writing and speaking under the protection of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. No aspect of his remarks is supported, condoned or officially recognized by The University of Texas at Austin. He does not speak in the University’s name and may not speak in its name. Using the same liberty, I convey my personal judgment that Jensen is not only misguided, but has become a fountain of undiluted foolishness on issues of public policy. Students must learn that there is a good deal of foolish opinion in the popular media and they must become skilled at recognizing and discounting it. I, too, was disgusted by Jensen’s article, but I also must defend his freedom to state his opinion. The First Amendment is the bedrock of American liberty.</p>
<p>I can hardly improve on President Faulkner&#8217;s words.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sandra stazzone</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9062</link>
		<dc:creator>sandra stazzone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9062</guid>
		<description>I do not celebrate thanksgiving, christmas, easter or holloween. What do any of these so called holidays have in common with our Lord and Savior. Santa, the easter bunny, turkey, and most of all the evils of holloween have no place in a true belivers life. Jeremiah chapter 10 . These are all pagan holidays in the eyes of our Lord. For those who wish to seek the truth  please read . I to use to celebrate them until I asked the Lord to lead me in truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not celebrate thanksgiving, christmas, easter or holloween. What do any of these so called holidays have in common with our Lord and Savior. Santa, the easter bunny, turkey, and most of all the evils of holloween have no place in a true belivers life. Jeremiah chapter 10 . These are all pagan holidays in the eyes of our Lord. For those who wish to seek the truth  please read . I to use to celebrate them until I asked the Lord to lead me in truth.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ansel</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9057</link>
		<dc:creator>ansel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9057</guid>
		<description>In short, the personal is political.  

@ Gary Lapon: That&#039;s a good point.  Unfortunately, there aren&#039;t many opportunities here in Austin, TX, for solidarity with indigenous activism.  And I don&#039;t know what happened to the immigrants&#039; rights movement here, which manifested as a 15,000-strong march last spring but hasn&#039;t been seen since.

I dispensed with birthday celebrations a while ago because of the consumerism and self-centeredness that the dominant culture bases them upon.  I wanted to re-claim the holiday and give gifts to others instead, but folks wouldn&#039;t accept them.  When I declared I wouldn&#039;t celebrate b-days any more, I was ostracized by some of my good friends, including radicals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In short, the personal is political.  </p>
<p>@ Gary Lapon: That&#8217;s a good point.  Unfortunately, there aren&#8217;t many opportunities here in Austin, TX, for solidarity with indigenous activism.  And I don&#8217;t know what happened to the immigrants&#8217; rights movement here, which manifested as a 15,000-strong march last spring but hasn&#8217;t been seen since.</p>
<p>I dispensed with birthday celebrations a while ago because of the consumerism and self-centeredness that the dominant culture bases them upon.  I wanted to re-claim the holiday and give gifts to others instead, but folks wouldn&#8217;t accept them.  When I declared I wouldn&#8217;t celebrate b-days any more, I was ostracized by some of my good friends, including radicals.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Glenn Bossmeyer</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9056</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Bossmeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 14:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9056</guid>
		<description>It might be useful to remember that a day of prayer and thanksgiving  for the last Thursday in November was proclaimed by President Lincoln in 1863 for a nation involved in a &quot;great civil war,&quot; as he observed that very month.  There was no contemporary indication the founding fathers, the Pilgrims, or anything other than the war , and the sacrifices and opportunities for contemplation it created, inspired the proclamation or the holiday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It might be useful to remember that a day of prayer and thanksgiving  for the last Thursday in November was proclaimed by President Lincoln in 1863 for a nation involved in a &#8220;great civil war,&#8221; as he observed that very month.  There was no contemporary indication the founding fathers, the Pilgrims, or anything other than the war , and the sacrifices and opportunities for contemplation it created, inspired the proclamation or the holiday.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: HR</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9010</link>
		<dc:creator>HR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9010</guid>
		<description>All that holidays, including those based on military glorification and religious myth, have ever meant for me as an adlult were extra paid days off.  It was clear shortly after graduation from high school in the late 60s that these times of self-glorification were utter nonsense, intended only to keep us in line and supporting the status quo that is so beneficial to the wealthy.  As far as I&#039;m concerned, Columbus was no hero, the U.S. military has forever fought for the interests of the wealthy, no U.S. President actually stood for the rights of common folks, and there is no god.  So, as I said, holidays for me were nice only because they gave me a paid day off.  The rest of the nonsense associated with them is either blind, stupid nationalism, Christofascism, self-imposed ignorance, stupidity, or a celebration of consumerism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All that holidays, including those based on military glorification and religious myth, have ever meant for me as an adlult were extra paid days off.  It was clear shortly after graduation from high school in the late 60s that these times of self-glorification were utter nonsense, intended only to keep us in line and supporting the status quo that is so beneficial to the wealthy.  As far as I&#8217;m concerned, Columbus was no hero, the U.S. military has forever fought for the interests of the wealthy, no U.S. President actually stood for the rights of common folks, and there is no god.  So, as I said, holidays for me were nice only because they gave me a paid day off.  The rest of the nonsense associated with them is either blind, stupid nationalism, Christofascism, self-imposed ignorance, stupidity, or a celebration of consumerism.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gary Lapon</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9002</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Lapon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-9002</guid>
		<description>While I agree, as Jensen states, that it&#039;s incorrect to state that &quot;individual behavior in private is more important than collective action in public,&quot; how does a private day of reflection (as Jensen will be having, supposedly) differ from a private celebration of Thanksgiving that ignores the dominant culture&#039;s vision of the holiday, at least in terms of the effect it has.]

Instead of coming up with his own anti-Thanksgiving event, if Jensen really wants to struggle for native rights maybe he would be better off seeking out indigenous movements to work with, or participating in the immigrant rights movement (as many immigrants from Latin America are indigenous to the Americas).  I agree with Jensen&#039;s statement that the macro is far more important than the micro, but in order to be consistent this requires shrugging off the politics of private morality and embracing the politics of collective struggle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree, as Jensen states, that it&#8217;s incorrect to state that &#8220;individual behavior in private is more important than collective action in public,&#8221; how does a private day of reflection (as Jensen will be having, supposedly) differ from a private celebration of Thanksgiving that ignores the dominant culture&#8217;s vision of the holiday, at least in terms of the effect it has.]</p>
<p>Instead of coming up with his own anti-Thanksgiving event, if Jensen really wants to struggle for native rights maybe he would be better off seeking out indigenous movements to work with, or participating in the immigrant rights movement (as many immigrants from Latin America are indigenous to the Americas).  I agree with Jensen&#8217;s statement that the macro is far more important than the micro, but in order to be consistent this requires shrugging off the politics of private morality and embracing the politics of collective struggle.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert B. Livingston</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-8998</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert B. Livingston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-8998</guid>
		<description>Jensen&#039;s diverting self-righteous angst continues to really irritate me.  

What other troubling questions has he ignored too long?  Where else has he gone along, to get along?

What absolution is he searching for when he asks, &quot;Once we know, what do we do in a world that is not yet ready to know, or knows but will not deal with the consequences of that knowledge?&quot;

For people who are truly concerned with knowledge, truth and justice, I strongly urge them to pick up a copy of Barrie Zwicker&#039;s Towers of Deception and read it.

Those who died on 9/11 had much in common with the Native Americans who perished in days of yore:  foremost, they stood in somebody&#039;s way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jensen&#8217;s diverting self-righteous angst continues to really irritate me.  </p>
<p>What other troubling questions has he ignored too long?  Where else has he gone along, to get along?</p>
<p>What absolution is he searching for when he asks, &#8220;Once we know, what do we do in a world that is not yet ready to know, or knows but will not deal with the consequences of that knowledge?&#8221;</p>
<p>For people who are truly concerned with knowledge, truth and justice, I strongly urge them to pick up a copy of Barrie Zwicker&#8217;s Towers of Deception and read it.</p>
<p>Those who died on 9/11 had much in common with the Native Americans who perished in days of yore:  foremost, they stood in somebody&#8217;s way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: George Thompson</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-8995</link>
		<dc:creator>George Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-8995</guid>
		<description>Always on point Mr. Jensen. I&#039;ve been abstaining from the lies of Thanksgiving for a few years now, including Christmas as well because the whole period of excessive consumerism, capitalism, delusion and infantilism sickens me beyond belief. It&#039;s always tied up in religion as well and I&#039;m a militant agnostic. I think we should designate the day before Thanksgiving the Day of Remembrance for American Indigenous Peoples.  That would demonstrate that it overrides the actual Thanksgiving day and also would avoid the dreaded day-after Thanksgiving sales that signal the beginning of the shopping season that traps Americans in debt for the entire next year so they can commit the same atrocity the next year all over again. And to all the people that think we&#039;re party poopers and raining on your parade, think about how it would feel to you if a group of people almost wiped out your entire race and then constructed a commercial, quasi-religious, annual celebration that marginalized the genocide that actually happened. Not so nice now huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Always on point Mr. Jensen. I&#8217;ve been abstaining from the lies of Thanksgiving for a few years now, including Christmas as well because the whole period of excessive consumerism, capitalism, delusion and infantilism sickens me beyond belief. It&#8217;s always tied up in religion as well and I&#8217;m a militant agnostic. I think we should designate the day before Thanksgiving the Day of Remembrance for American Indigenous Peoples.  That would demonstrate that it overrides the actual Thanksgiving day and also would avoid the dreaded day-after Thanksgiving sales that signal the beginning of the shopping season that traps Americans in debt for the entire next year so they can commit the same atrocity the next year all over again. And to all the people that think we&#8217;re party poopers and raining on your parade, think about how it would feel to you if a group of people almost wiped out your entire race and then constructed a commercial, quasi-religious, annual celebration that marginalized the genocide that actually happened. Not so nice now huh?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kell Brigan</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-8982</link>
		<dc:creator>Kell Brigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-8982</guid>
		<description>From the Pilgrim Hall website: &quot;The historical event we know today as the &quot;First Thanksgiving&quot; was a harvest festival held in 1621 by the Pilgrims and their Native American neighbors and allies.&quot;

I don&#039;t have a problem with this. The site goes on to state that the &quot;historical significance&quot; of the event has &quot;acquired significance beyond the historical facts.&quot; 

Actually, it always had significance beyond that one event. I have some respect for Robert Jensen, but in this case, he&#039;s way off. The celebration of the Harvest goes back far before 1600, and the importance of a local community coming together in good faith to celebrate far outweighs any tiny, almost mythological, link with recent history. And, that this one in particular is also associated with people from sometimes-opposing cultures coming together, however briefly or rarely, makes it especially worth celebrating. 

But, then, celebrating along with everybody else doesn&#039;t get you noticed or give you a chance to play holier-than-thou, does it? I refuse to let people for whom iconoclastic ego trips are a favorite hobby intrude upon my honorable, reasonable holidays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the Pilgrim Hall website: &#8220;The historical event we know today as the &#8220;First Thanksgiving&#8221; was a harvest festival held in 1621 by the Pilgrims and their Native American neighbors and allies.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a problem with this. The site goes on to state that the &#8220;historical significance&#8221; of the event has &#8220;acquired significance beyond the historical facts.&#8221; </p>
<p>Actually, it always had significance beyond that one event. I have some respect for Robert Jensen, but in this case, he&#8217;s way off. The celebration of the Harvest goes back far before 1600, and the importance of a local community coming together in good faith to celebrate far outweighs any tiny, almost mythological, link with recent history. And, that this one in particular is also associated with people from sometimes-opposing cultures coming together, however briefly or rarely, makes it especially worth celebrating. </p>
<p>But, then, celebrating along with everybody else doesn&#8217;t get you noticed or give you a chance to play holier-than-thou, does it? I refuse to let people for whom iconoclastic ego trips are a favorite hobby intrude upon my honorable, reasonable holidays.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-8975</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-8975</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Nowadays, the international community would never allow such a thing to happen, but the consequences are irreversible.&lt;/i&gt;

Well I don&#039;t know about that.  Take a look at what&#039;s happening in Palestine.  In fact in the U.S. you&#039;ll get huge resistance against Jensen&#039;s advocacy from Zionists because if U.S. citizens become conscience of its own past it won&#039;t tolerate its blind support for the Israel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Nowadays, the international community would never allow such a thing to happen, but the consequences are irreversible.</i></p>
<p>Well I don&#8217;t know about that.  Take a look at what&#8217;s happening in Palestine.  In fact in the U.S. you&#8217;ll get huge resistance against Jensen&#8217;s advocacy from Zionists because if U.S. citizens become conscience of its own past it won&#8217;t tolerate its blind support for the Israel.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: El Oaxuco</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-8974</link>
		<dc:creator>El Oaxuco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-8974</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this article.  I plan to fast that day and reflect with those around me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this article.  I plan to fast that day and reflect with those around me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Kenny</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-8969</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/11/raining-on-the-thanksgiving-day-parade/#comment-8969</guid>
		<description>All the countries of the American continent, not just the US, are fruit of the poisoned tree of European colonialism. The US has got up everybody&#039;s nose only because it has become so powerful. (Who hates Canadians?) 

All the countries of the continent have followed the same pattern. Europeans invaded the continent, massacred the people, stole their land and destroyed their culture. They then kidnapped people in West Africa and brought them to America as slaves. The colonists then declared independence and further colonisation followed, from both Europe ans Asia. Nowadays, the international community would never allow such a thing to happen, but the consequences are irreversible.

The solution would seem to be that, since everybody is in the same boat, everybody should get together. A great American Union, from Nunavut to Tierra del Fuego!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All the countries of the American continent, not just the US, are fruit of the poisoned tree of European colonialism. The US has got up everybody&#8217;s nose only because it has become so powerful. (Who hates Canadians?) </p>
<p>All the countries of the continent have followed the same pattern. Europeans invaded the continent, massacred the people, stole their land and destroyed their culture. They then kidnapped people in West Africa and brought them to America as slaves. The colonists then declared independence and further colonisation followed, from both Europe ans Asia. Nowadays, the international community would never allow such a thing to happen, but the consequences are irreversible.</p>
<p>The solution would seem to be that, since everybody is in the same boat, everybody should get together. A great American Union, from Nunavut to Tierra del Fuego!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
