<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Venezuela and Revolutionary Moralism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:07:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Shabnam</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7958</link>
		<dc:creator>Shabnam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7958</guid>
		<description>Plese print my reply to REZA.   Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plese print my reply to REZA.   Thanks</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike McNiven</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7934</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike McNiven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7934</guid>
		<description>A message for Shabnam:

&quot;reza said on October 22nd, 2007 

People with little logic require a lot of noise, baseless accusations and outright shameless lies to push aside reason. 
You can sholooqhesh koni all you want, Shabnam, but you’re making yourself dizzy, without persuading anyone. But, then again, maybe you are paid to storm the barn; so, if it’s paying your bills, keep rocking, sister! 

Intelligent socialists don’t find it necessary to remind everybody that they are anti-imperialists/anti-Zionists with every thing they utter, nor with every dump they take. It’s taken for granted. But, since I have affection for disabled people, for those who like to act blind and willfully deaf, my anti-imperialist stance was clearly stated. 

The noise-makers, however, don’t like to learn that Iranian people’s fight for democracy is, and must be, as has always been, and will be, for the foreseeable future, simultaneously a fight against imperialism. We, the people of the Third World, are in the same position as are African Americans; their fight too is simultaneously against colonialism/racism and for justice and true democracy, in the belly of the beast. One fight cannot be separated from the other. It is the same for us, and it is an ongoing struggle. Imperialism/colonialism don’t take breaks. 

As to the question of imperialists using the nuclear issue as an excuse to attack Iran … If imperialists want to attack, they’ll attack us. It has NOTHING to do with the nukes (that too is stated clearly in the article). They didn’t attack us in 1953 (when they overthrew our democratically elected government) because we had nukes; they attacked us for different reasons (and NOT because Mossadegh was a commie-lover). They didn’t attack Vietnam because they had nukes. They don’t attack and savage the Palestinians daily for the past sixty years because they have nukes. WAKE UP!!

So, when they attack us in Iran, what are they going to hit first? WAKE UP!!

Believe me, when the enemy has TEN THOUSAND nuclear warheads, having a few is no deterrent. Like Chirac said, even if a few are launched, within minutes Tehran’d be bombed back to the Stone Age. And nobody’s that stupid; least of all the mullahs. But, if there’s a live nuclear power plant (way down south, mind you, away from the seat of power), all the enemy has to do is drop a mini-nuke and let all hell loose. 

What we DON’T want, under any conditions __ just as the government in Iran should not want this either __ is a glowing radioactive zone stretching for hundreds of miles. 

Those who prefer to make believe (that imperialists need legitimate excuses to attack us lesser peoples) forget that imperialism NEVER LEAVES. We are ALWAYS under attack. Imperialism, when we are friendly to it and welcoming, attacks our livelihoods through its beloved corporations; something, I believe, the proponents of a ‘normalization’ actually wish for; meaning, they like it if imperialists should ‘normalize’ relations and allow ‘investments’ for ‘development’; nothing to do with looting the national goods of the Iranians; but, the ‘nice way’! 

Now, who’s the pro-imperialist?

Make all the noise you want. Noise doesn’t change reality.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A message for Shabnam:</p>
<p>&#8220;reza said on October 22nd, 2007 </p>
<p>People with little logic require a lot of noise, baseless accusations and outright shameless lies to push aside reason.<br />
You can sholooqhesh koni all you want, Shabnam, but you’re making yourself dizzy, without persuading anyone. But, then again, maybe you are paid to storm the barn; so, if it’s paying your bills, keep rocking, sister! </p>
<p>Intelligent socialists don’t find it necessary to remind everybody that they are anti-imperialists/anti-Zionists with every thing they utter, nor with every dump they take. It’s taken for granted. But, since I have affection for disabled people, for those who like to act blind and willfully deaf, my anti-imperialist stance was clearly stated. </p>
<p>The noise-makers, however, don’t like to learn that Iranian people’s fight for democracy is, and must be, as has always been, and will be, for the foreseeable future, simultaneously a fight against imperialism. We, the people of the Third World, are in the same position as are African Americans; their fight too is simultaneously against colonialism/racism and for justice and true democracy, in the belly of the beast. One fight cannot be separated from the other. It is the same for us, and it is an ongoing struggle. Imperialism/colonialism don’t take breaks. </p>
<p>As to the question of imperialists using the nuclear issue as an excuse to attack Iran … If imperialists want to attack, they’ll attack us. It has NOTHING to do with the nukes (that too is stated clearly in the article). They didn’t attack us in 1953 (when they overthrew our democratically elected government) because we had nukes; they attacked us for different reasons (and NOT because Mossadegh was a commie-lover). They didn’t attack Vietnam because they had nukes. They don’t attack and savage the Palestinians daily for the past sixty years because they have nukes. WAKE UP!!</p>
<p>So, when they attack us in Iran, what are they going to hit first? WAKE UP!!</p>
<p>Believe me, when the enemy has TEN THOUSAND nuclear warheads, having a few is no deterrent. Like Chirac said, even if a few are launched, within minutes Tehran’d be bombed back to the Stone Age. And nobody’s that stupid; least of all the mullahs. But, if there’s a live nuclear power plant (way down south, mind you, away from the seat of power), all the enemy has to do is drop a mini-nuke and let all hell loose. </p>
<p>What we DON’T want, under any conditions __ just as the government in Iran should not want this either __ is a glowing radioactive zone stretching for hundreds of miles. </p>
<p>Those who prefer to make believe (that imperialists need legitimate excuses to attack us lesser peoples) forget that imperialism NEVER LEAVES. We are ALWAYS under attack. Imperialism, when we are friendly to it and welcoming, attacks our livelihoods through its beloved corporations; something, I believe, the proponents of a ‘normalization’ actually wish for; meaning, they like it if imperialists should ‘normalize’ relations and allow ‘investments’ for ‘development’; nothing to do with looting the national goods of the Iranians; but, the ‘nice way’! </p>
<p>Now, who’s the pro-imperialist?</p>
<p>Make all the noise you want. Noise doesn’t change reality.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Shabnam</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7812</link>
		<dc:creator>Shabnam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 03:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7812</guid>
		<description>A message for the readers of this site:

MIKE  McNIVEN is a pro Israel, Pro Zionist and Anti Iran Propagandist who uses this site to link to the same article “Congressman Kucinich Must Find a Better Role Model than Bob Ney” that has posted many times in the past few months. Mike McNiven is a propagandist who Jamie, the rabbit Zionist, thanks him many times for his opinion.

This article is written by an Iranian charlatan who spreads lies about “Iran Lobby” and portraits those who criticizing Bush administration for his fascist policy on Iran which is a Zionist policy,   part of “Iran Lobby”.  Please read a few lines from the article that McNiven gives a link to:

“An alarming resemblance exists between Ney&#039;s advocacy of Tehran over the past decade and Congressman Dennis Kucinich&#039;s (D-Ohio) advocacy of Tehran now. On August 1, 2007, Baztab, the Farsi language web site controlled by the former commander of the revolutionary guards, wrote an article about Kucinich&#039;s &quot;lonely battle&quot; in opposition to sanction efforts against the Iranian regime.4 
Kucinich and Ney&#039;s support of Tehran&#039;s ayatollahs is quite similar in method and substance. They both call for engagement with mullahs; They both vehemently fight against any type of sanction against the mullahs; They both oppose human right statements against Iran by the congress; They both associate with the same known mullahs&#039; proxies in the US; And they both side with Iran when it comes to Iran&#039;s anti Israeli rhetoric.” 

Mike McNiven, A Zionist pro Israel who has disguised himself as pro Iranian people brings videos made by the monarchists, puppet of the Zionists who are cooperating with the fifth columnists, the Zionists, to help them to take power in Iran.  People like Michael Ledeen and Kenneth Timmerman are part of Zionists who are working towards this goal, to bring the Shah’s family back who serves Israel.
 Hassan Daioleslam, the writer of this article which is given by Mike McNiven, the Zionist, attacking both Bob Ney and Kucinich as “Iran Lobby” and saying that both Kucinich and Ney do not want sanction against Iranian people to strangulate their economy and kill more children so they may be forced to transfer the power to puppet of  the Zionist that Mike McNiven represents.  Hassan Daioleslam has presented his rubbish many times at VOICE OF AMERICA, (VOA), the only place he can sell his rubbish.
Please expose the Zionists who are sent to progressive sites to preach and spread anti Iranian people propaganda and harm the fragile movement of Anti Zionist so they can kill more Iranian children like Iraqi children to smoothen the path for further action.
Shame on the disguised Zionist.  We will not going to be silent and will expose them every time the smell is too strong to be tolerated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A message for the readers of this site:</p>
<p>MIKE  McNIVEN is a pro Israel, Pro Zionist and Anti Iran Propagandist who uses this site to link to the same article “Congressman Kucinich Must Find a Better Role Model than Bob Ney” that has posted many times in the past few months. Mike McNiven is a propagandist who Jamie, the rabbit Zionist, thanks him many times for his opinion.</p>
<p>This article is written by an Iranian charlatan who spreads lies about “Iran Lobby” and portraits those who criticizing Bush administration for his fascist policy on Iran which is a Zionist policy,   part of “Iran Lobby”.  Please read a few lines from the article that McNiven gives a link to:</p>
<p>“An alarming resemblance exists between Ney&#8217;s advocacy of Tehran over the past decade and Congressman Dennis Kucinich&#8217;s (D-Ohio) advocacy of Tehran now. On August 1, 2007, Baztab, the Farsi language web site controlled by the former commander of the revolutionary guards, wrote an article about Kucinich&#8217;s &#8220;lonely battle&#8221; in opposition to sanction efforts against the Iranian regime.4<br />
Kucinich and Ney&#8217;s support of Tehran&#8217;s ayatollahs is quite similar in method and substance. They both call for engagement with mullahs; They both vehemently fight against any type of sanction against the mullahs; They both oppose human right statements against Iran by the congress; They both associate with the same known mullahs&#8217; proxies in the US; And they both side with Iran when it comes to Iran&#8217;s anti Israeli rhetoric.” </p>
<p>Mike McNiven, A Zionist pro Israel who has disguised himself as pro Iranian people brings videos made by the monarchists, puppet of the Zionists who are cooperating with the fifth columnists, the Zionists, to help them to take power in Iran.  People like Michael Ledeen and Kenneth Timmerman are part of Zionists who are working towards this goal, to bring the Shah’s family back who serves Israel.<br />
 Hassan Daioleslam, the writer of this article which is given by Mike McNiven, the Zionist, attacking both Bob Ney and Kucinich as “Iran Lobby” and saying that both Kucinich and Ney do not want sanction against Iranian people to strangulate their economy and kill more children so they may be forced to transfer the power to puppet of  the Zionist that Mike McNiven represents.  Hassan Daioleslam has presented his rubbish many times at VOICE OF AMERICA, (VOA), the only place he can sell his rubbish.<br />
Please expose the Zionists who are sent to progressive sites to preach and spread anti Iranian people propaganda and harm the fragile movement of Anti Zionist so they can kill more Iranian children like Iraqi children to smoothen the path for further action.<br />
Shame on the disguised Zionist.  We will not going to be silent and will expose them every time the smell is too strong to be tolerated.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Luis S. Barrios</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7771</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis S. Barrios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7771</guid>
		<description>Dear Prof. La Venia: I enjoyed your article but I must say that your understanding about the situation in Venezuela is not very accurate. To say many things in very few words, Mr. Chavez&#039;s accomplishments have not been as much as those that his government claims neither as little that the opposition claims, but one thing is for sure: democracy is decreasing and dissapearing faster than in other country in Latin America. As a social democrat myself, I cannot accept one for the other, and he wants to duplicate Cuba&#039;s life style in every way, an economic and political system that failed because it hides its failures in the ever-lasting excuse of American imperialism and its embargo. Venezuela&#039;s social gains have been extremely small compared to the amount of dollars the Chavez administration has received in eight years, more than Europe did with the Marshall Plan. Doctor La Venia, whenever you have a chance, please go to Venezueula and measure with your own eyes what is going on there, and the, we&#039;ll talk. Thank you, L. S. Barrios, Professor of Political Science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Prof. La Venia: I enjoyed your article but I must say that your understanding about the situation in Venezuela is not very accurate. To say many things in very few words, Mr. Chavez&#8217;s accomplishments have not been as much as those that his government claims neither as little that the opposition claims, but one thing is for sure: democracy is decreasing and dissapearing faster than in other country in Latin America. As a social democrat myself, I cannot accept one for the other, and he wants to duplicate Cuba&#8217;s life style in every way, an economic and political system that failed because it hides its failures in the ever-lasting excuse of American imperialism and its embargo. Venezuela&#8217;s social gains have been extremely small compared to the amount of dollars the Chavez administration has received in eight years, more than Europe did with the Marshall Plan. Doctor La Venia, whenever you have a chance, please go to Venezueula and measure with your own eyes what is going on there, and the, we&#8217;ll talk. Thank you, L. S. Barrios, Professor of Political Science.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Shabnam</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7697</link>
		<dc:creator>Shabnam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7697</guid>
		<description>I agree with Daniel Brockert who writes:

  “I definitely agree that morality cannot be legislated, but responsibility can be legislated.”  

However, I don’t understand why Mr. Mike McMilan using this space irresponsibly and instead of “add to the discussion”, he copies article which is not even related to this  issue and paste it here to widen and extend  his campaign of Anti IRAN propaganda to this website.
This article has been copied and pasted already  in the “Add to the discussion”  section under another article with the title “An Anti-Imperialist Case Against Iran’s Nuclear Program” by Fiyouzat, dated October 18, 2007.   Apparently, Mr. Mcmilan, has gone out of VIDEOS and now pasting the same article at the end of other people’s posts to spread, in his mind, anti Iran propaganda to serve the war machine of the enemies of humanities, the ZIONIST-IMPERIALIST camp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Daniel Brockert who writes:</p>
<p>  “I definitely agree that morality cannot be legislated, but responsibility can be legislated.”  </p>
<p>However, I don’t understand why Mr. Mike McMilan using this space irresponsibly and instead of “add to the discussion”, he copies article which is not even related to this  issue and paste it here to widen and extend  his campaign of Anti IRAN propaganda to this website.<br />
This article has been copied and pasted already  in the “Add to the discussion”  section under another article with the title “An Anti-Imperialist Case Against Iran’s Nuclear Program” by Fiyouzat, dated October 18, 2007.   Apparently, Mr. Mcmilan, has gone out of VIDEOS and now pasting the same article at the end of other people’s posts to spread, in his mind, anti Iran propaganda to serve the war machine of the enemies of humanities, the ZIONIST-IMPERIALIST camp.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonas South</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7695</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas South</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 16:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7695</guid>
		<description>Peter LaVenia hits the nail squarely on the head: socialist societies undoubtedly benefit from leaders who value integrity, morals and certain personal attributes. In this, Chavez is unique in that he looms larger than life in Venezuela, and his admirers hang on his every word. But their enthusiasm can lead them to conflate private behavior with public policy, to legislate with impatience, and not realize that they have reached the point when it becomes counter productive. Twentieth century history offers ample proof that private behavior can be modified only with a soft touch, and only over a long period of time.

For those of us unburdened with leadership roles, there is another way:

&#039;He who follows dao teaches the lesson of no words. Immoral men provide the teaching material without charge, and no student is ever turned away.&#039;	Laotse, circa 5th century BCE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter LaVenia hits the nail squarely on the head: socialist societies undoubtedly benefit from leaders who value integrity, morals and certain personal attributes. In this, Chavez is unique in that he looms larger than life in Venezuela, and his admirers hang on his every word. But their enthusiasm can lead them to conflate private behavior with public policy, to legislate with impatience, and not realize that they have reached the point when it becomes counter productive. Twentieth century history offers ample proof that private behavior can be modified only with a soft touch, and only over a long period of time.</p>
<p>For those of us unburdened with leadership roles, there is another way:</p>
<p>&#8216;He who follows dao teaches the lesson of no words. Immoral men provide the teaching material without charge, and no student is ever turned away.&#8217;	Laotse, circa 5th century BCE.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel Brockert</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7580</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Brockert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/10/venezuela-and-revolutionary-moralism/#comment-7580</guid>
		<description>I definitely agree that morality cannot be legislated, but responsibility can be legislated.  It is irresponsible to drink and smoke in excess or drive over the speed limit and all of those activities can hurt other people.  So while we shouldn&#039;t preach self-denial, an obvious flawed approach, it appears that these types of laws can work.  
        A couple months ago the Venezuelan government reduced sales taxes to reduce inflation.  The government had to come up with some means of recuperating lost revenue.  Taxing cigarettes and alchohol is an effective means of doing that.  The morality Chavez is espousing may just be an elaborate justification for maintaining sales tax revenues.  
       As far as driving the speed limit is concerned, we have evidence that strict laws work.  In the United States and Cuba there are strict driving laws that are frequently enforced.  As a result traffic accidents are less common in those places than in Venezuela.  In Venezuela traffic is a nightmare, people are frequently killed in accidents and enforcement is very rare.  Getting people to go the speed limit would be a very sound public policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely agree that morality cannot be legislated, but responsibility can be legislated.  It is irresponsible to drink and smoke in excess or drive over the speed limit and all of those activities can hurt other people.  So while we shouldn&#8217;t preach self-denial, an obvious flawed approach, it appears that these types of laws can work.<br />
        A couple months ago the Venezuelan government reduced sales taxes to reduce inflation.  The government had to come up with some means of recuperating lost revenue.  Taxing cigarettes and alchohol is an effective means of doing that.  The morality Chavez is espousing may just be an elaborate justification for maintaining sales tax revenues.<br />
       As far as driving the speed limit is concerned, we have evidence that strict laws work.  In the United States and Cuba there are strict driving laws that are frequently enforced.  As a result traffic accidents are less common in those places than in Venezuela.  In Venezuela traffic is a nightmare, people are frequently killed in accidents and enforcement is very rare.  Getting people to go the speed limit would be a very sound public policy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

