Something like “Islamic Democracy” has been floating about for years and years – simply because in Islam there is something called “shura” which is a group of experts of different fields to help the caliph make rulings. I think people every where would prefer experts to greedy pigs for making laws. Wouldn’t you feel better about your hambergers knowing that a health expert was making sure your food was clean instead of a money-for-all politician?

Still – most people I know who have been in contact with Hamas say it’s more like a really bad Godfather film than a flowering democracy.

A roadmap for peacefl co-existence it isn’t. Oh, I forgot. This is a Hamas board.

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

….article Twenty-Two:

For a long time, the enemies (JEWS) have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained. They took into consideration the causes affecting the current of events. They strived to amass great and substantive material wealth which they devoted to the realisation of their dream. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.

By the way, always bear in mind the gap between European and American interests in the area. The EU doesn’t like the US position on Hamas and spends most of its time trying to get around it, notwithstanding the power which the US stranglehold on the world economy gives it over Europe. That may be a bit less obvious viewed from London than from elsewhere on the continent, but it is very real and the Iranians, for example, have exploited it to their advantage.

Jonathan, Hamas (nor Hezbollah in Lebanon) clearly does not operate that way. It has a track record — which is why they won the elections. Or do you nonetheless choose to ignore that in the article and in their history for some ‘backdoor’ (Zionist?) reason?

If the choice is between supporting Anglo-American imperialism or even the Islamic resistance (not all of which is fundamentalist) — I’ll support the Islamic resistance, because until the U.S./Israel stops militarily attacking or being a threat to or those countries (which is why I would heartily support Iran getting nuclear weapons) — until the imperialists are forced out — no progress can take place in those societies. (One can see that between North & South Korean moves toward diplomatic normalization and the re-uniting of WWII families: when North Korea doesn’t have to worry about *constant* existential military threats from the U.S., it will feel safe enough to engage in such discussions.)

It was the U.S. that turned Islamic fundamentalism into “a world power” anyway. It was the U.S. and the British that overthrew democracy in Iran — which led to the Shah, which led to the Ayatollah. The Mideast wouldn’t be in the mess that it’s in, as far as oppressive regimes, if it weren’t for the U.S. and the British supporting those regimes (including the racist Zionist regime) in the first place. And whether certain governments/parties are Islamic or not, they –and moreso the men, women and children in those countries– still have a right to exist without their countries being militarily invaded, untold thousands killed, made homeless, medically destroyed, bombed to ruins, colonized, and their country wholesale privitized by the U.S..

Bin Laden had at least five top demands: NONE of them involved religion, and MILLIONS of people around the world would agree with those top five demands — people who would NEVER fly passenger planes into Western skyscraperes.

It’s interesting: the U.S. doesn’t particularly care whether its FRIENDS are dictatorial, but demands that it’s ENEMIES are democratic.

It was Malcolm X (who was Muslim too) who asked about the U.S. government: “DEMOCRACYor *HYPOCRISY*?”

Joseph Anderson

Berkeley, CA

WHAT ABOUT THAT JEWISH PRAYER WHERE A JEWISH MAN GIVES THANKS TO GOD THAT HE WASN’T BORN A WOMAN?

But not being familiar with Morgaan Sinclair (October 16th, 2007 at 3:03 pm), who is, I see, just a jaime clone (or alias?), I did first read a line or two of Sinclair’s post until it descended into hilarious polemical caricature: ah, it turned out to be good for a quick laugh this workday afternoon. Do you take that comedy routine on the road to the New York Adirondacks “Borscht Belt” clubs, Morgaan?

HEY, MORGAAN, YOU’RE ACTUALLY *FUNNIER* THAN JAIME!! (Sorry Jaime.)

Lest anyone forget…

MORGAAN YOU’RE A *ZIONIST*!! ..TALK ABOUT *ANTI-DEMOCRATIC*!! — LET ALONE *RACIST*!!

ISRAEL IS A *SEMI-THEOCRATIC* STATE!

A STATE WHOSE GOAL WAS/IS TO REVERSE *TWO-THOUSAND YEARS* OF HUMAN MIGRATION WITH AN ARGUMENT THAT WAS _*LITERALLY* WORSE THAN *MEDIEVAL*_!!

–TALK ABOUT “ANTI-MODERNITY”!!

A STATE WITH NO JEWISH CIVIL MARRIAGES OR CIVIL DIVORCES.

AND WHERE EVEN IF A WIFE’S HUSBAND SUDDENLY DIES OR DISAPPEARS, SHE HAS TO GET *PERMISSION* FROM HER HUSBAND’S *BROTHER* TO GET A DIVORCE IF SHE WANTS TO EVER REMARRY!! — NO MATTER NOW MANY YEARS LATER!!!

OR HOW ABOUT *JEWISH* RELIGIOUS CLERICS CONTROL OF ISRAEL’S HOLIDAYS?

AND HOW ABOUT JEWISH WOMEN WHO ARE OFTEN ATTACKED –STONED &/OR CHAINED — BY ORTHODOX ISRAELI RABBIS FOR WEARING “SHORT” DRESSES, SHORTS, SLEAVELESS TOPS, AND WHATEVER ELSE THOSE RABBIS CONSIDER IMMODEST ATTIRE IN THE WRONG PART OF TOWN!

(Btw, there was even a Ha’aretz story, one time, about how a PALESTINIAN man saved a Jewish woman from being CHASED, STONED and CHAINED by Orthodox Rabbis in Jerusalem for wearing “immodest attire”.)

WHAT ABOUT THE UTILIZATION OF “SHABBAT GOYS” TO SKIRT (EXCUSE THE PUN) AROUND RELGIOUS NO-WORK DAYS?

(I know even from personal experience: I used to gladly be one for one of my close former Jewish female roommates back in college that I had a big thing for! [Smile])

AND EVEN ISRAELI JEWISH WAYS TO GET AROUND RAISING PIGS FOR FOOD!

AS ONE JEWISH FRIEND TOLD ME, “NO WONDER WE JEWS MAKE SUCH GOOD LAWYERS: WE HAVE TO OFTEN FIND SO MANY WAYS TO GET AROUND OUR RELIGIOUS STRICTURES — AND RABBINICAL SCHOLARS SPEND ENDLESS HOURS IN METICULOUS DEBATES ABOUT HOW TO DO SO IN OUR RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS.”

ONLY RECENTLY DID CONSERVATIVE RABBINICAL SCHOOLS EVEN ACCEPT GAYS.

AND LET’S NOT EVEN TALK ABOUT *JEWISH* RELIGIOUS *COMPULSORY* CIRCUMCISION!!

(Btw, it’s usually _some_ African Muslims, usually in backwards, rural parts of certain countries, rather than Arab/Persian Muslims, who tend to engage in the female circumcision that occurs. And, unfortunately, it’s usually African Muslim women, relatives, there who conduct it.)

And Morgaan, if you care about innocent Palestinian children [or for that matter Lebanese children] so much, then why don’t you tell the IDF to stop *shooting* them for sport, or bombing them and, at least, their mothers in their very own homes [or air raid shelters] — well, those that you haven’t ethnically cleansed away, anyway.

Finally, Morgaan, I forgot: did Israel’s Zionist founders exclude *Christian* Palestinians from those Zionists ethnic cleansing operations of between (even what Israeli historians now admit — some, like Benny Morris, proudly admit) 750,000-1,000,000 Palestinians, especially in 1947 and 1948 alone?

And, didn’t Israel originally *SUPPORT* Hamas and allow it to freely operate when Israel was attacking/banning the PLO?

Hmmm…?

First, WHAT Islamic democracy??? You want to get a grip here? Only Turkey comes even close. Saudi Arabia ranks just behind North Korea (the Borg) in human rights. In at least one of the four major schools of fiqh (you know what a madhab is, right?), circumcism is COMPULSORY for women. Belying the socialist ideal, a woman’s testimony is worth 1/2 that of a man, her dead body worth as much as a man’s LEG, her inheritance rights a fraction if there are any at at all. If a woman and a man are caught committing adultery, he gets 100 lashes and she gets stoned to death. How’s that for democracy???? You like that??? You MUST be a man! Of course, in real, good, sturdy, exemplary socialism it’s a MAN’s WORLD, right???

If you care anything about the children of this world, it is very much time to declare that ONLY when the Palestinians show us a constitution where women are equal in all rights to men (including protection under the law from being burned to death if there are too many girls in the family), do not have an enforced dress code, cannot be raped with impunity— and where Christians and Jews are as well protected as Muslims are in Israel (there are a million Muslims there who don’t want to leave … and it’s the only place the refugees from Darfur can go and be safe).

When they give us that and mean it, then, maybe then they should get a country. If they get one BEFORE then, you’ve got Saudi Arabia. Period.

And the kids? Is this what you’d like to have done to YOUR kids??? Watch this, and then tell me we have a good little Islamic democratic republic in the making, since AL MEDIA IN PALESTINE IS RUN BY THE GOVERNMENT AND THIS IS THE SHIT YOU GET.

http://www.pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_mamareem2007.asx

The combination of the imperailism’s Cold War policies were devastatingly effective. These policies trace back to the allignment with the Saudi government, run through the backing of Osama Bin Ladin and the international Jihad against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, and include crucial support for Hamas in it’s early years.

This created special conditions in which reactionary religious movements could pose themselves as progressive liberation movements.

Leftists who chose to allign themselves with Islamist forces do so at their own peril. They should be aware that, while they may not be clear on whether Islamists are friends or foes, the Islamists don’t have that problem. They’ll allow leftist to ally with them on terms the Islamists define when it suits their short term interests, but will exterminate the left when they get the chance. Be forewarned!