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	<title>Comments on: Barak Appoints War Criminal Yaron</title>
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	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: Neal</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6236</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 05:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6236</guid>
		<description>Crass,

A closer look at the facts suggests you overlook quite a few. Among them: Israel is not an apartheid state. You do a disservice to those who worked tirelessly against apartheid by confusing a dispute over land with a governing philosophy.

Also among your thought errors: in Lebanon, more than 100,000 people had been massacred before any Israelis showed up. And, when the Israelis showed up, Arabs continued to kill Arabs far more effectively than Israelis did. 

Now, we have propagandists who act as if Israel, not the Phalange militia which committed the massacres, is solely responsible. That is old fashion racism. It sends the message to Arabs that they are mere animals, incapable of moral action. But again: we are all responsible for what we do. That applies to Arab as well.
 
So, as I said, Israel bears some fault in the events. However, the primary fault is certainly the militia which actually committed the massacres. And that was not Israel. It was the Phalange.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crass,</p>
<p>A closer look at the facts suggests you overlook quite a few. Among them: Israel is not an apartheid state. You do a disservice to those who worked tirelessly against apartheid by confusing a dispute over land with a governing philosophy.</p>
<p>Also among your thought errors: in Lebanon, more than 100,000 people had been massacred before any Israelis showed up. And, when the Israelis showed up, Arabs continued to kill Arabs far more effectively than Israelis did. </p>
<p>Now, we have propagandists who act as if Israel, not the Phalange militia which committed the massacres, is solely responsible. That is old fashion racism. It sends the message to Arabs that they are mere animals, incapable of moral action. But again: we are all responsible for what we do. That applies to Arab as well.</p>
<p>So, as I said, Israel bears some fault in the events. However, the primary fault is certainly the militia which actually committed the massacres. And that was not Israel. It was the Phalange.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Crass</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6218</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Crass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6218</guid>
		<description>Perhaps we focus upon Israel&#039;s misanthropic bloodlust because we (those of us in the U.S., anyway) foot the bill for the fucking psychos. By the by, it&#039;s pretty mind-boggling that someone defending the actions of an expansionistic apartheid state feels free to toss around words like &quot;racist.&quot; That&#039;s about like Adolph Hitler getting up in your shit and calling you an anti-semite. That takes a lot of willful ignorance, and I, for one, applaud your dedication to being worthless. Bravo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps we focus upon Israel&#8217;s misanthropic bloodlust because we (those of us in the U.S., anyway) foot the bill for the fucking psychos. By the by, it&#8217;s pretty mind-boggling that someone defending the actions of an expansionistic apartheid state feels free to toss around words like &#8220;racist.&#8221; That&#8217;s about like Adolph Hitler getting up in your shit and calling you an anti-semite. That takes a lot of willful ignorance, and I, for one, applaud your dedication to being worthless. Bravo.</p>
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		<title>By: Neal</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6204</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6204</guid>
		<description>Mulga,

I hate to disappoint you. I made and make no defense of those with any responsibility - directed or indirect - for the massacres in question.  And, I do not defend that which is not, in my view, right.  Clearly, Israel&#039;s use of the Maronite Arab Phalange militia in Palestinian Arab camps,  given that Maronites and Palestinian Arabs spent much of a decade massacring each other in an unspeakable orgy of horror and slaughter, was wrong.  And, clearly General Yaron bears some very considerable degree of indirect responsibility for what the Maronite Phalange did to Palestinian Arabs.

What I argue instead is that those who leave out the moral and legal responsibility of those who committed the outrage - that is, about the party which is, in this case, clearly the most responsible, morally and legally - are generally racist in attitude.  Such people tend to view massacres committed by Arabs against other Arabs as unimportant because they believe - a racist notion - that Arabs are not capable of moral judgment or moral action.  Then, I ask the reasonable question: where does Professor Boyle stand on all of this - not just on the narrow topic he raises -, since he appears to take a very narrow view of who is to blame. 

To Professor Boyle:

Given that the atrocities were carried out by Arabs with their own agenda, why do you focus only on Israelis? By what sort of principles do you operate in making such a narrow selection of villains? And, where do you stand - please give actual examples, not just platitudes - on those Arabs who committed the massacres in question? And - also providing examples -, where do you stand on the morality and legality of the policy adopted by the Hamas, Islamic Jihad and by the al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade of using the massacre as a policy of common choice in their war against Israel?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mulga,</p>
<p>I hate to disappoint you. I made and make no defense of those with any responsibility &#8211; directed or indirect &#8211; for the massacres in question.  And, I do not defend that which is not, in my view, right.  Clearly, Israel&#8217;s use of the Maronite Arab Phalange militia in Palestinian Arab camps,  given that Maronites and Palestinian Arabs spent much of a decade massacring each other in an unspeakable orgy of horror and slaughter, was wrong.  And, clearly General Yaron bears some very considerable degree of indirect responsibility for what the Maronite Phalange did to Palestinian Arabs.</p>
<p>What I argue instead is that those who leave out the moral and legal responsibility of those who committed the outrage &#8211; that is, about the party which is, in this case, clearly the most responsible, morally and legally &#8211; are generally racist in attitude.  Such people tend to view massacres committed by Arabs against other Arabs as unimportant because they believe &#8211; a racist notion &#8211; that Arabs are not capable of moral judgment or moral action.  Then, I ask the reasonable question: where does Professor Boyle stand on all of this &#8211; not just on the narrow topic he raises -, since he appears to take a very narrow view of who is to blame. </p>
<p>To Professor Boyle:</p>
<p>Given that the atrocities were carried out by Arabs with their own agenda, why do you focus only on Israelis? By what sort of principles do you operate in making such a narrow selection of villains? And, where do you stand &#8211; please give actual examples, not just platitudes &#8211; on those Arabs who committed the massacres in question? And &#8211; also providing examples -, where do you stand on the morality and legality of the policy adopted by the Hamas, Islamic Jihad and by the al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade of using the massacre as a policy of common choice in their war against Israel?</p>
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		<title>By: Francis Boyle</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6172</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis Boyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6172</guid>
		<description>Via NY Transfer News Collective  *  All the News that Doesn&#039;t Fit
 
Received from Francis Boyle - Sep 20, 2007

KPFA (San Francisco&#039;s Pacifica station) airs &quot;Flashpoints.&quot; Yes, there
ARE still a few bright spots on Pacifica radio, giving Lew Hill moments
of respite from spinning in his grave. (Lew Hill founded Pacifica.)

On September 18, 2007  25 years after the Sabra and Shatila slaughters
(with the killers still free) &quot;Flashpoints&quot; aired a report from
the ground in occupied Palestine.

The &quot;Sabra and Shatila Massacre 25-Year Anniversary&quot; segment
also featured Professor Francis Boyle, of the University of Illinois. A
scholar in the areas of international law and human rights, Professor
Boyle received a J.D. degree magna cum laude and MA and Ph.D. degrees
in political science from Harvard University. Prior to joining the
faculty at the College of Law, he was a teaching fellow at Harvard and
an associate at its Center for International Affairs. Professor Boyle
discusses the fates and fortunes of those found culpable and
responsible for the horrific massacres in an interview by Nora
Barrows-Friedman.

FLASHPOINT LINKS:  Their main website page gives many links and other
good information: http://flashpoints.net/

Flashpoints 9/18/07 - http://flashpoints.net/index.html#2007-09-18

Listen:
http://www.kpfa.org/cgi-bin/gen-mpegurl.m3u?server=aud1.kpfa.org&amp;port=80&amp;file=dummy.m3u&amp;mount=/data/20070918-Tue1700.mp3

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Via NY Transfer News Collective  *  All the News that Doesn&#8217;t Fit</p>
<p>Received from Francis Boyle &#8211; Sep 20, 2007</p>
<p>KPFA (San Francisco&#8217;s Pacifica station) airs &#8220;Flashpoints.&#8221; Yes, there<br />
ARE still a few bright spots on Pacifica radio, giving Lew Hill moments<br />
of respite from spinning in his grave. (Lew Hill founded Pacifica.)</p>
<p>On September 18, 2007  25 years after the Sabra and Shatila slaughters<br />
(with the killers still free) &#8220;Flashpoints&#8221; aired a report from<br />
the ground in occupied Palestine.</p>
<p>The &#8220;Sabra and Shatila Massacre 25-Year Anniversary&#8221; segment<br />
also featured Professor Francis Boyle, of the University of Illinois. A<br />
scholar in the areas of international law and human rights, Professor<br />
Boyle received a J.D. degree magna cum laude and MA and Ph.D. degrees<br />
in political science from Harvard University. Prior to joining the<br />
faculty at the College of Law, he was a teaching fellow at Harvard and<br />
an associate at its Center for International Affairs. Professor Boyle<br />
discusses the fates and fortunes of those found culpable and<br />
responsible for the horrific massacres in an interview by Nora<br />
Barrows-Friedman.</p>
<p>FLASHPOINT LINKS:  Their main website page gives many links and other<br />
good information: <a href="http://flashpoints.net/" rel="nofollow">http://flashpoints.net/</a></p>
<p>Flashpoints 9/18/07 &#8211; <a href="http://flashpoints.net/index.html#2007-09-18" rel="nofollow">http://flashpoints.net/index.html#2007-09-18</a></p>
<p>Listen:<br />
<a href="http://www.kpfa.org/cgi-bin/gen-mpegurl.m3u?server=aud1.kpfa.org&amp;port=80&amp;file=dummy.m3u&amp;mount=/data/20070918-Tue1700.mp3" rel="nofollow">http://www.kpfa.org/cgi-bin/gen-mpegurl.m3u?server=aud1.kpfa.org&amp;port=80&amp;file=dummy.m3u&amp;mount=/data/20070918-Tue1700.mp3</a></p>
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		<title>By: jaime</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6171</link>
		<dc:creator>jaime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6171</guid>
		<description>Would you like fries with that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would you like fries with that?</p>
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		<title>By: Mulga Mumblebrain</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6147</link>
		<dc:creator>Mulga Mumblebrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6147</guid>
		<description>Frankly who else but Jaime and Neal to serve as apologists for mass murder, of men, women, children and babies, rape and terror. There&#039;s always a convenient out for the Holy State and its Blessed People. When the lies are exposed, as with the multifarous lies concerning the ethnic cleansing, through murder, massacre and terror, of 1948 , just keep on repeating them, embellishing them even. Its called chutzpah. One seriously doubts whether even the likes  of Streicher and Goebbels had such calculated contempt for the truth, and for the untermenschen whose slaughter these ghastly apologists seek to find excuses for. It is no accident that Israel is always on the receiving end of General Assembly majorities of 100 plus to two or three. It is because the people of the world, particularly the majority in the old &#039;Third World&#039; recognise European colonialism, and its inexorable companion, racist contempt and callousness, when they see it. As the likes of these creatures make plain, there is no conceivable horror that may be visited on the untermenschen that obstruct Israel&#039;s relentless quest for God-ordained lebensraum, that the apologists for Israel will not portray as yet further evidence of the Holy State&#039;s legendary &#039;moral purity&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frankly who else but Jaime and Neal to serve as apologists for mass murder, of men, women, children and babies, rape and terror. There&#8217;s always a convenient out for the Holy State and its Blessed People. When the lies are exposed, as with the multifarous lies concerning the ethnic cleansing, through murder, massacre and terror, of 1948 , just keep on repeating them, embellishing them even. Its called chutzpah. One seriously doubts whether even the likes  of Streicher and Goebbels had such calculated contempt for the truth, and for the untermenschen whose slaughter these ghastly apologists seek to find excuses for. It is no accident that Israel is always on the receiving end of General Assembly majorities of 100 plus to two or three. It is because the people of the world, particularly the majority in the old &#8216;Third World&#8217; recognise European colonialism, and its inexorable companion, racist contempt and callousness, when they see it. As the likes of these creatures make plain, there is no conceivable horror that may be visited on the untermenschen that obstruct Israel&#8217;s relentless quest for God-ordained lebensraum, that the apologists for Israel will not portray as yet further evidence of the Holy State&#8217;s legendary &#8216;moral purity&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Neal</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6094</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6094</guid>
		<description>sk,

I did not drag in unrelated stories. The material I quoted pertained explicitly to Lebanon and to the massacres in issue. And, frankly, the attitude of most of those who condemn the Israelis while saying nothing much about those who committed the massacres - who were, in fact, not Israelis - is old fashioned racism, in this case rendering Arabs into non-moral agents on the level of animals. That, my friend, is what is involved here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sk,</p>
<p>I did not drag in unrelated stories. The material I quoted pertained explicitly to Lebanon and to the massacres in issue. And, frankly, the attitude of most of those who condemn the Israelis while saying nothing much about those who committed the massacres &#8211; who were, in fact, not Israelis &#8211; is old fashioned racism, in this case rendering Arabs into non-moral agents on the level of animals. That, my friend, is what is involved here.</p>
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		<title>By: sk</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6075</link>
		<dc:creator>sk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 01:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6075</guid>
		<description>Dragging in unrelated atrocity stories is Standard Operating Procedure for nationalists (as Orwell described them &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;) to divert attention from enormities carried out by their Holy State. It&#039;s an old diversionary ploy designed to muddy the waters as shown in this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoiU5f30YrY&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;clip&lt;/a&gt; of Noam Chomsky being questioned by &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frum&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David Frum&lt;/a&gt;, the Neocon sloganeer.

P.S. This is how Orwell defined Nationalism (among variants of which he counted Zionism):
&lt;blockquote&gt;
the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of advancing its interests.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dragging in unrelated atrocity stories is Standard Operating Procedure for nationalists (as Orwell described them <a href="http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat" rel="nofollow">here</a>) to divert attention from enormities carried out by their Holy State. It&#8217;s an old diversionary ploy designed to muddy the waters as shown in this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoiU5f30YrY" rel="nofollow">clip</a> of Noam Chomsky being questioned by <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frum" rel="nofollow">David Frum</a>, the Neocon sloganeer.</p>
<p>P.S. This is how Orwell defined Nationalism (among variants of which he counted Zionism):</p>
<blockquote><p>
the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of advancing its interests.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Neal</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6049</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6049</guid>
		<description>Nothing in Professor Boyle&#039;s account suggests any moral responsibility for the villains who committed the massacre. It is as if such people were mere puppets, with no agenda of their own. 

And, it is to be pointed out that such massacre was only one of many.  One need only recall that the civil war in Lebanon caused the death of more than 100,000 people and the number of massacres committed by all sides of that war - including by Palestinian Arabs - is not small.  So, there is much blame to go around, if morals are to play any role in our thinking.

As noted by Bernard Lewis:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The massacre of seven hundred to eight hundred Palestinian refugees in Sabra and Shatila that same year was carried out by Lebanese militiamen, led by a Lebanese commander who subsequently became a minister in the Syrian-sponsored Lebanese government, and it was seen as a reprisal for the assassination of the Lebanese President Bashir Gemayyel. Ariel Sharon, who at the time commanded the Israeli forces in Lebanon, was reprimanded by an Israeli commission of inquiry for not having foreseen and prevented the massacre, and was forced to resign from his position as Minister of Defense. It is understandable that the Palestinians and other Arabs should lay sole blame for the massacre on Sharon. What is puzzling is that Europeans and Americans should do the same. Some even wanted to try Sharon for crimes against humanity before a tribunal in Europe. No such suggestion was made regarding either Saddam Hussein or Hafiz al-Assad, who slaughtered tens of thousands of their compatriots. It is easy to understand the bitterness of those who see the implication here. It was as if the militia who had carried out the deed were animals, not accountable by the same human standards as the Israelis.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So, why is the outrage by Professor Boyle so selective? By what sort of principles does he operate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing in Professor Boyle&#8217;s account suggests any moral responsibility for the villains who committed the massacre. It is as if such people were mere puppets, with no agenda of their own. </p>
<p>And, it is to be pointed out that such massacre was only one of many.  One need only recall that the civil war in Lebanon caused the death of more than 100,000 people and the number of massacres committed by all sides of that war &#8211; including by Palestinian Arabs &#8211; is not small.  So, there is much blame to go around, if morals are to play any role in our thinking.</p>
<p>As noted by Bernard Lewis:</p>
<blockquote><p>The massacre of seven hundred to eight hundred Palestinian refugees in Sabra and Shatila that same year was carried out by Lebanese militiamen, led by a Lebanese commander who subsequently became a minister in the Syrian-sponsored Lebanese government, and it was seen as a reprisal for the assassination of the Lebanese President Bashir Gemayyel. Ariel Sharon, who at the time commanded the Israeli forces in Lebanon, was reprimanded by an Israeli commission of inquiry for not having foreseen and prevented the massacre, and was forced to resign from his position as Minister of Defense. It is understandable that the Palestinians and other Arabs should lay sole blame for the massacre on Sharon. What is puzzling is that Europeans and Americans should do the same. Some even wanted to try Sharon for crimes against humanity before a tribunal in Europe. No such suggestion was made regarding either Saddam Hussein or Hafiz al-Assad, who slaughtered tens of thousands of their compatriots. It is easy to understand the bitterness of those who see the implication here. It was as if the militia who had carried out the deed were animals, not accountable by the same human standards as the Israelis.</p></blockquote>
<p>So, why is the outrage by Professor Boyle so selective? By what sort of principles does he operate?</p>
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		<title>By: jaime</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6037</link>
		<dc:creator>jaime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/barak-appoints-war-criminal-yaron/#comment-6037</guid>
		<description>So what prompted the Sabra Shatilla massacre? 
The question is certainly not answered above.

Sadly, it was a response by Christian Lebanese to atrocities committed against them by Palestinian immigrants to Lebanon.  The larger context of this tragedy is the 15 year  Lebanese Civil war, spawned by none other than Yassir Arafat and his cronies after the failed Palestinian usurpation of the Jordanian monarchy. In the wake of that, Jordan&#039;s King Hussain&#039;s troops butchered some 20,000 Palestinians or more in an action remembered as &quot;Black September.&quot; 

All that the  investigations into  Israel Military conduct during Sabra and Chatilla  concluded was that the soldiers &quot;should have known&quot; that a massacre was possible. No other culpability was ever proven against any of the commanders or participants, though opponents to the existence of the Jewish State Israel would have you believe otherwise.

A copy of this is being kept in case this &quot;unacceptable viewpoint &quot; is erased by &quot;management.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what prompted the Sabra Shatilla massacre?<br />
The question is certainly not answered above.</p>
<p>Sadly, it was a response by Christian Lebanese to atrocities committed against them by Palestinian immigrants to Lebanon.  The larger context of this tragedy is the 15 year  Lebanese Civil war, spawned by none other than Yassir Arafat and his cronies after the failed Palestinian usurpation of the Jordanian monarchy. In the wake of that, Jordan&#8217;s King Hussain&#8217;s troops butchered some 20,000 Palestinians or more in an action remembered as &#8220;Black September.&#8221; </p>
<p>All that the  investigations into  Israel Military conduct during Sabra and Chatilla  concluded was that the soldiers &#8220;should have known&#8221; that a massacre was possible. No other culpability was ever proven against any of the commanders or participants, though opponents to the existence of the Jewish State Israel would have you believe otherwise.</p>
<p>A copy of this is being kept in case this &#8220;unacceptable viewpoint &#8221; is erased by &#8220;management.&#8221;</p>
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