Comments on: Iraq, Iran and the Moral Rot Infecting the Soul of America http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:00:48 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Mike McNiven http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5091 Mike McNiven Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:08:44 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5091 The obvious fact is that Maleki is a US puppet, loved by the White House! Please see the view of the Iranian Left, who understand that the struggle against imperialism requires a struggle against fascism --including Maleki's pre-capitalist fascism (anti-women, anti-Christian, anti-Jew,...)! http://www.iran-bulletin.org/ The obvious fact is that Maleki is a US puppet, loved by the White House! Please see the view of the Iranian Left, who understand that the struggle against imperialism requires a struggle against fascism –including Maleki’s pre-capitalist fascism (anti-women, anti-Christian, anti-Jew,…)!

http://www.iran-bulletin.org/

]]> By: Shabnam http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5078 Shabnam Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:24:38 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5078 I agree with the author when he brings a quote from Alexis de Tocqueville: “I know of no country where there is so little true independence of mind and freedom of discussion as in America.” However I disagree with him when he agrees with NYT and he writes: Mr. Maliki’s government “is the logical product of the system the United States created, one that deliberately empowered the long-persecuted Shiite majority and deliberately marginalized the long-dominant Sunni Arab minority……” [”The Problem Isn’t Mr. Maliki,” New York Times, August 24, 2007] The problem of Iraq, I think, is not really the divide between Shiite and Sunni as the Imperialist/Zionist want us to believe. As matter of fact this divide is very much desired by the occupation force in Iraq to cover up their violence and destruction carried out by the occupiers and their associates such as Saudi Arabia and Jordan and others. Their plan for Iraq has not been successful so far and they do not have their puppet government in place yet and they DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE IRAQ. So what is left for them is to buy time and convince critics and angry Americans with this myth that if they leave Iraq is going to be even bloodier and that’s not acceptable, therefore, we have to continue our occupation of Iraq on “moral” basis. “If you break it you own it” this nonsense is coming from the mouth of those figures who would like to see Iraq and her people to be destroyed rather to leave Iraq without the desired outcome, a puppet state where is managed by US puppet like Iyad Allawi or Chalabi. They also want to create the divide in Lebanon as well. But in Lebanon there is no occupation force, like Iraq, yet and that’s why it is managed better than Iraq. In Lebanon Christians and Muslims in many areas are UNITED against the common enemy forget about the “divide between Sunni and Shiite.” Maleki is not acting sectarian since these people are the victims of sectarian politics but are struggling and playing politics in order to save Iraq from the Imperialist/Zionist rule and their local associates. Al-Maliki is wanted out of power by Hillary Clinton and Sarkozy of France, product of “Fulbright program”, and pro Israel policies in the M.E who has given Al-Maliki’s removal order to his Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner. Al-Maliki like other Iraqi people wants an independent Iraq and it is nothing to do with Sunni/Shiite divide where the occupation force is trying hard to create. Majority of Iraqi people want US out (71%). Number of times Iraqi people, regardless of their background, being Sunni or Shiite, have staged demonstrations and demanded US leave Iraq. The only group who wants the occupation of Iraq continues is the Kurds who have close relationship with both Israel and US. Only 21% of Iraqi think US is a “stabilizing force” while 78% think has a negative influence on Iraq. So what I am trying to say is that we should think independent of NYT where they sold Iraq war and now is trying different technique to save them so they can sell another war, namely Iran war. I agree with the author when he brings a quote from Alexis de Tocqueville: “I know of no country where there is so little true independence of mind and freedom of discussion as in America.” However I disagree with him when he agrees with NYT and he writes: Mr. Maliki’s government “is the logical product of the system the United States created, one that deliberately empowered the long-persecuted Shiite majority and deliberately marginalized the long-dominant Sunni Arab minority……” [”The Problem Isn’t Mr. Maliki,” New York Times, August 24, 2007]
The problem of Iraq, I think, is not really the divide between Shiite and Sunni as the Imperialist/Zionist want us to believe. As matter of fact this divide is very much desired by the occupation force in Iraq to cover up their violence and destruction carried out by the occupiers and their associates such as Saudi Arabia and Jordan and others. Their plan for Iraq has not been successful so far and they do not have their puppet government in place yet and they DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE IRAQ. So what is left for them is to buy time and convince critics and angry Americans with this myth that if they leave Iraq is going to be even bloodier and that’s not acceptable, therefore, we have to continue our occupation of Iraq on “moral” basis. “If you break it you own it” this nonsense is coming from the mouth of those figures who would like to see Iraq and her people to be destroyed rather to leave Iraq without the desired outcome, a puppet state where is managed by US puppet like Iyad Allawi or Chalabi. They also want to create the divide in Lebanon as well. But in Lebanon there is no occupation force, like Iraq, yet and that’s why it is managed better than Iraq. In Lebanon Christians and Muslims in many areas are UNITED against the common enemy forget about the “divide between Sunni and Shiite.” Maleki is not acting sectarian since these people are the victims of sectarian politics but are struggling and playing politics in order to save Iraq from the Imperialist/Zionist rule and their local associates. Al-Maliki is wanted out of power by Hillary Clinton and Sarkozy of France, product of “Fulbright program”, and pro Israel policies in the M.E who has given Al-Maliki’s removal order to his Foreign Minister Bernard
Kouchner. Al-Maliki like other Iraqi people wants an independent Iraq and it is nothing to do with Sunni/Shiite divide where the occupation force is trying hard to create. Majority of Iraqi people want US out (71%). Number of times Iraqi people, regardless of their background, being Sunni or Shiite, have staged demonstrations and demanded US leave Iraq. The only group who wants the occupation of Iraq continues is the Kurds who have close relationship with both Israel and US. Only 21% of Iraqi think US is a “stabilizing force” while 78% think has a negative influence on Iraq. So what I am trying to say is that we should think independent of NYT where they sold Iraq war and now is trying different technique to save them so they can sell another war, namely Iran war.

]]> By: Sandy D. Hammond http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5010 Sandy D. Hammond Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:52:46 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5010 GET RID OF ALLOF THEM!! GET RID OF ALLOF THEM!!

]]> By: Sandy D. Hammond http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5005 Sandy D. Hammond Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:49:38 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5005 And we will be putting our military in harms way, only these few,( or more maybe )can cause allof this, obviously this is why we see all this rotting in our country. They have to be held accountable, and not be able to make up these excuses for going to war. For now it is our military who is in the most danger, for now, but next it will be everyone, we have to restore our republic, they have created an enemy never pinpointed.We will always be fighting this war or wars , unless stopped. This will lead us into more danger and nuclear wars. Yep very big problem, but they have to be stopped. And we will be putting our military in harms way, only these few,( or more maybe )can cause allof this, obviously this is why we see all this rotting in our country. They have to be held accountable, and not be able to make up these excuses for going to war. For now it is our military who is in the most danger, for now, but next it will be everyone, we have to restore our republic, they have created an enemy never pinpointed.We will always be fighting this war or wars , unless stopped. This will lead us into more danger and nuclear wars. Yep very big problem, but they have to be stopped.

]]> By: Sandy D. Hammond http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5002 Sandy D. Hammond Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:41:37 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5002 These wars will just go on and on on unless something is done to stop it. These wars will just go on and on on unless something is done to stop it.

]]> By: Sandy D. Hammond http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5001 Sandy D. Hammond Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:38:38 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5001 So why are we now hearing about the Senator?? WHy are'nt we hearing about going to another War?? Huh?? Why WHy WHy So why are we now hearing about the Senator?? WHy are’nt we hearing about going to another War?? Huh?? Why WHy WHy

]]> By: Sandy D. Hammond http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5000 Sandy D. Hammond Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:36:50 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-5000 YA , So what are we going to do about Iran?? Are we just going to sit by and let this happen to us again? It has already happened once , or twice, you would think we would have learned by now? All of a sudden another war?? Come on, its so obvious. He cannot be allowed to just take us into another war. WE have to bring the troops home now!! YA , So what are we going to do about Iran?? Are we just going to sit by and let this happen to us again? It has already happened once , or twice, you would think we would have learned by now? All of a sudden another war?? Come on, its so obvious. He cannot be allowed to just take us into another war. WE have to bring the troops home now!!

]]> By: Mike McNiven http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-4977 Mike McNiven Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:21:34 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-4977 http://www.iran-bulletin.org/Attack%20on%20Iran/NO%20WAR%20ON%20IRAN.htm http://www.iran-bulletin.org/Attack%20on%20Iran/NO%20WAR%20ON%20IRAN.htm

]]> By: m. riggs http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-4772 m. riggs Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:35:23 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-4772 I think this is an extraordinary article, deeply researched and better yet, well synthesized. Mike, I don't think that "moral rot" is a concept ever meant for quantification. I think this is an extraordinary article, deeply researched and better yet, well synthesized. Mike, I don’t think that “moral rot” is a concept ever meant for quantification.

]]> By: Mike McNiven http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-4684 Mike McNiven Tue, 28 Aug 2007 07:48:26 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-4684 Moral Rot as seen by an Iranian scholar living in the US who --based on his own words-- cares about peace and social justice in his homeland: http://www.losangeleschronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=35885 Moral Rot as seen by an Iranian scholar living in the US who –based on his own words– cares about peace and social justice in his homeland:

http://www.losangeleschronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=35885

]]> By: Jeremy Wells http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-4675 Jeremy Wells Tue, 28 Aug 2007 04:21:36 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-4675 "Moral rot also explains American’s current inability to see through Bush’s “surge” propaganda." All such "explanations" of why things are happening ... or not happening ... is essentially RUBBISH! How does one acquire and measure "moral rot"? What could any one individual ... let alone an entire society ... do to eliminate "moral rot"? Perhaps throught prayer? Or take a class in ethics? I suggest perhaps you might examine more useful perspectives. Take a course in current Marxism. Or better subscribe to Monthly Review magazine for a year (independent socialist magazine) highest quality writing by journalists, academics, scientists and activists around the world). Or perhaps daily read the World Socialist Web Site http://www.wsws.org for a month (subscribe on-line FREE) for critical analysis from a marxist/socialist perspective of the WHY current events. Compare these information and analysis with what you currently read, especially such sources as THE NATION. Check out who owns the mass media in this country. And thus conrols CONTENT! The same corporte capitalist viewpoint on EVERYTHING is indoctrinated to the masses 24 hours a today. There are very specific and documented media studies on why masses of people believe the things they do. We won't go through the vast list of lies the Bush gang have inflicted upon us through mass media. The Democratic Party is complict in accepting the Bush lies and is a full partner in "the war and terrorism", the Iraq war, etc. Both Democratic and Republican parties are support the corporate capitalist agenda, expressed in the Project for the New American Century. Capitalism, as such, is a-amoral, a-ethical because it is a-human. Not human. Capitalism has no "moral rot" because it is not a moral (human) entity or system. It has no "morals" to "rot". Capitalism is not affected by the needs of humanity, the destruction of the enviornment, or global warming. Employees are simply "human resources", to be consumed and used up at the least possible cost. Maximization of profit, regardless of the effects on humanity or the environment, is the only calculation capitalism is capable. “Moral rot also explains American’s current inability to see through Bush’s “surge” propaganda.”

All such “explanations” of why things are happening … or not happening … is essentially RUBBISH! How does one acquire and measure “moral rot”? What could any one individual … let alone an entire society … do to eliminate “moral rot”? Perhaps throught prayer? Or take a class in ethics?

I suggest perhaps you might examine more useful perspectives. Take a course in current Marxism. Or better subscribe to Monthly Review magazine for a year (independent socialist magazine) highest quality writing by journalists, academics, scientists and activists around the world).

Or perhaps daily read the World Socialist Web Site http://www.wsws.org for a month (subscribe on-line FREE) for critical analysis from a marxist/socialist perspective of the WHY current events.

Compare these information and analysis with what you currently read, especially such sources as THE NATION.

Check out who owns the mass media in this country. And thus conrols CONTENT! The same corporte capitalist viewpoint on EVERYTHING is indoctrinated to the masses 24 hours a today. There are very specific and documented media studies on why masses of people believe the things they do.

We won’t go through the vast list of lies the Bush gang have inflicted upon us through mass media. The Democratic Party is complict in accepting the Bush lies and is a full partner in “the war and terrorism”, the Iraq war, etc. Both Democratic and Republican parties are support the corporate capitalist agenda, expressed in the Project for the New American Century.

Capitalism, as such, is a-amoral, a-ethical because it is a-human. Not human. Capitalism has no “moral rot” because it is not a moral (human) entity or system. It has no “morals” to “rot”.

Capitalism is not affected by the needs of humanity, the destruction of the enviornment, or global warming. Employees are simply “human resources”, to be consumed and used up at the least possible cost. Maximization of profit, regardless of the effects on humanity or the environment, is the only calculation capitalism is capable.

]]> By: Lloyd Rowsey http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-4662 Lloyd Rowsey Tue, 28 Aug 2007 01:06:14 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/iraq-iran-and-the-moral-rot-infecting-the-soul-of-america/#comment-4662 I agree with the author’s vast and precise information, and I appreciate having it. At a less impersonal level: my oldest friend is a “freeway” professor of Political Science, specifically Democratic Theory, in and around Pasadena, California; and for years we’ve commiserated about politics in the United States (even as he’s diligently continued writing his life’s work on democratic theory and I’ve diligently remained a communist). A couple of years ago it occurred to me that in fact the increasing horror of national politics roughly since Ronald Reagan is simply a return to the norm; that in fact Americans have witnessed exactly two period of real hope – in the 1860’s and the 1960’s; and that it was just my friend’s and my misfortune to have grown into adult political awareness in the 1960’s, because consequently what we have experienced as an exceptionally deepening nadir is simply a return to the norm. I mentioned this thought to my friend, and, he did not demur. lloydrowsey@hotmail.com I agree with the author’s vast and precise information, and I appreciate having it. At a less impersonal level: my oldest friend is a “freeway” professor of Political Science, specifically Democratic Theory, in and around Pasadena, California; and for years we’ve commiserated about politics in the United States (even as he’s diligently continued writing his life’s work on democratic theory and I’ve diligently remained a communist). A couple of years ago it occurred to me that in fact the increasing horror of national politics roughly since Ronald Reagan is simply a return to the norm; that in fact Americans have witnessed exactly two period of real hope – in the 1860’s and the 1960’s; and that it was just my friend’s and my misfortune to have grown into adult political awareness in the 1960’s, because consequently what we have experienced as an exceptionally deepening nadir is simply a return to the norm. I mentioned this thought to my friend, and, he did not demur.

lloydrowsey@hotmail.com

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