Comments on: A Dream Deferred http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:58:11 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Richie Hoffman http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-26467 Richie Hoffman Fri, 15 Aug 2008 23:24:20 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-26467 Damn kids with their ideals and whatnot, get off my lawn! Damn kids with their ideals and whatnot, get off my lawn!

]]> By: Random http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4546 Random Sun, 26 Aug 2007 03:16:55 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4546 As a child of the 60s I grew up in the waning days of the hippy era only to be faced with adulthood in a strangely sterile, every man and woman for themselves 80s. I can honestly say that I find the 60's more hopeful, more inspirational, more human. For all your undisguised distaste as you recite the cliche'd characteristics of the hippy, I wonder, as the above poster does, whether you realize the benefits you reaped from this vibrant period of our history and if you would truly be enjoying the present era were we able to surgically resect the peace and love decade? Straight from the 50's, I for one can imagine a serious lag in birth control availability, limited educational opportunities for women, doubtful establishment of such noble ideas as environmental protections and consumer protections, not to mention a very different music scene, a retarded modern art movement, and heaven knows with regard to fashion. Politics? I don't even want to speculate. Like any kind of social movement, we define the hippy by those that we most notice, whether by sight, sound or smell and we most notice those who stand out, making them posterchildren for the rest. The hippy that dresses modestly, smells neutrally, espouses his or her views quietly or indirectly, networks to intercept the goodies before they hit the dumpster doesn't quite have the pizazz necessary to hit the radar, nevertheless they're there. The hippies I've encountered have by and large been living the life modern environmentalists are now touting to the general public as "sustainable." Much of what was once hippy is now mainstream. Today we have other groups who similarly jump out at us in terms of their culture, their appearance, their values. Much of it I could similarly shunt into a category that I myself react to with extreme dismay . . . violent, materialistic, misogynistic, wasteful, alien and in your face in fashion and music, uncaring about the longterm future, drug and alcohol- addled, and largely socially separated by choice. I can only sigh and say . . . Long live the hippy. As a child of the 60s I grew up in the waning days of the hippy era only to be faced with adulthood in a strangely sterile, every man and woman for themselves 80s. I can honestly say that I find the 60’s more hopeful, more inspirational, more human. For all your undisguised distaste as you recite the cliche’d characteristics of the hippy, I wonder, as the above poster does, whether you realize the benefits you reaped from this vibrant period of our history and if you would truly be enjoying the present era were we able to surgically resect the peace and love decade? Straight from the 50’s, I for one can imagine a serious lag in birth control availability, limited educational opportunities for women, doubtful establishment of such noble ideas as environmental protections and consumer protections, not to mention a very different music scene, a retarded modern art movement, and heaven knows with regard to fashion. Politics? I don’t even want to speculate.
Like any kind of social movement, we define the hippy by those that we most notice, whether by sight, sound or smell and we most notice those who stand out, making them posterchildren for the rest. The hippy that dresses modestly, smells neutrally, espouses his or her views quietly or indirectly, networks to intercept the goodies before they hit the dumpster doesn’t quite have the pizazz necessary to hit the radar, nevertheless they’re there. The hippies I’ve encountered have by and large been living the life modern environmentalists are now touting to the general public as “sustainable.” Much of what was once hippy is now mainstream. Today we have other groups who similarly jump out at us in terms of their culture, their appearance, their values. Much of it I could similarly shunt into a category that I myself react to with extreme dismay . . . violent, materialistic, misogynistic, wasteful, alien and in your face in fashion and music, uncaring about the longterm future, drug and alcohol- addled, and largely socially separated by choice.
I can only sigh and say . . . Long live the hippy.

]]> By: Tom Cordle http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4440 Tom Cordle Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:09:27 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4440 Born in 1944, I am of the last of the generation before The Boomers. I'm guessing you were yet to be a glint in someon'es eye during The Sixties, which may account for your one-sided assessment of hippies. I was there, and I agree that there was much to dislike about the Hippie movement (it should be noted that bowels have movements, too, with somewhat similar results). Even then, I was disgusted with the sloth, the indolence, the rudeness and the other deadly sins which prevailed. Then as now, drugs are for losers, and that includes the tune-in, turn-on, drop-put intellectual pretensions of Timothy Leary, et al. Experience life somewhere besides the ivy-covered womb of Harvard, and you'll get all the "experience" you can handle -- without dropping acid. I was also appalled at the Mao-Wannabes who showed up on campus with raised clenched fists and "Power to the People, Right on!" sloganeering. It seemed to me, their chief aim was balling campus SDS groupies and drinking some pretty good wine. Meanwhile, the people were getting killed in Viet Nam or were, like me, working their asses off in a hot, poisonous foundry right out of the Deer-Hunter. At least that's how it was back when the Rust Belt still had such things. But -- your assessment does not credit hippies for the good that came from their protests -- for calling attention to a misbegotten war -- for bringing down a lying, conniving president -- for denying themselves the pleasures and comforts of 50s conformity -- for calling their elders to task for racism. In fact, as a woman, you would probably not be enjoying the forum you have today without young women of that day burning their bras and pounding on the door of corporate boardrooms. Frankly, I wish to hell more young people of what I suspect is your generation were out in the streets protesting this stupid war and this stupid president and his evil minions. Finally, hippies may have been a mangy disreputable lot, but they were the primary audience for some of the best and most liberated pop music this country has ever produced. Indeed, it was a time when the lunatics really did run the asylum. On that score at least, I can't see where the iPod generation has much room to criticize the LP generation. Born in 1944, I am of the last of the generation before The Boomers. I’m guessing you were yet to be a glint in someon’es eye during The Sixties, which may account for your one-sided assessment of hippies. I was there, and I agree that there was much to dislike about the Hippie movement (it should be noted that bowels have movements, too, with somewhat similar results).
Even then, I was disgusted with the sloth, the indolence, the rudeness and the other deadly sins which prevailed. Then as now, drugs are for losers, and that includes the tune-in, turn-on, drop-put intellectual pretensions of Timothy Leary, et al. Experience life somewhere besides the ivy-covered womb of Harvard, and you’ll get all the “experience” you can handle — without dropping acid.
I was also appalled at the Mao-Wannabes who showed up on campus with raised clenched fists and “Power to the People, Right on!” sloganeering. It seemed to me, their chief aim was balling campus SDS groupies and drinking some pretty good wine. Meanwhile, the people were getting killed in Viet Nam or were, like me, working their asses off in a hot, poisonous foundry right out of the Deer-Hunter. At least that’s how it was back when the Rust Belt still had such things.
But — your assessment does not credit hippies for the good that came from their protests — for calling attention to a misbegotten war — for bringing down a lying, conniving president — for denying themselves the pleasures and comforts of 50s conformity — for calling their elders to task for racism. In fact, as a woman, you would probably not be enjoying the forum you have today without young women of that day burning their bras and pounding on the door of corporate boardrooms. Frankly, I wish to hell more young people of what I suspect is your generation were out in the streets protesting this stupid war and this stupid president and his evil minions.
Finally, hippies may have been a mangy disreputable lot, but they were the primary audience for some of the best and most liberated pop music this country has ever produced. Indeed, it was a time when the lunatics really did run the asylum. On that score at least, I can’t see where the iPod generation has much room to criticize the LP generation.

]]> By: ron http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4389 ron Thu, 23 Aug 2007 01:29:02 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4389 This little rant is somewhat pointless. It's so easy to be cynical. I'm not sure what you mean by hippie--indeed, I never knew what a hippie was. Either way, cynicism changes even less than dumpster-diving. At least there's occasioanl good stuff in a dumpster. There's nothing of value in cynicism. This little rant is somewhat pointless. It’s so easy to be cynical. I’m not sure what you mean by hippie–indeed, I never knew what a hippie was. Either way, cynicism changes even less than dumpster-diving. At least there’s occasioanl good stuff in a dumpster. There’s nothing of value in cynicism.

]]> By: paul http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4379 paul Wed, 22 Aug 2007 20:03:31 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4379 stacie sounds like an old punk spitting on his grandfather. Nothing better to do, Stacie ? stacie sounds like an old punk spitting on his grandfather. Nothing better to do, Stacie ?

]]> By: Robert B. Livingston http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4352 Robert B. Livingston Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:52:10 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4352 If we can dream it we can do it! Thank-you Ana! Se nós pudermos o sonhar nós podemos fazê-lo Obrigado Ana! If we can dream it we can do it!
Thank-you Ana!

Se nós pudermos o sonhar nós podemos fazê-lo
Obrigado Ana!

]]> By: Ana http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4340 Ana Wed, 22 Aug 2007 01:27:30 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4340 Para ser um hippie você deve acreditar na paz como a maneira resolver diferenças entre povos, ideologias e religiões. A maneira à paz é com o amor e a tolerância. Amar significa a aceitação de outra enquanto é, dar-lhe a liberdade para expressar-se e não os julgar baseados em aparências. Este é o núcleo da filosofia do hippie. Assim ser um hippie não é uma matéria do vestido, do comportamento, do status econômico...É uma aproximação filosófica à vida que emfatiza a liberdade, a paz, o amor e um respeito para outro e à terra. A maneira do hippie nunca morreu. . Eu acredito que há um pouco hippie em todos nós. A geraçao que acreditou ser capaz de parar uma guerra e mudar o mundo, deixou uma semente que acabaria sendo lançada aos quatro ventos, indo refletir-se nos lugares mais longínquos do globo. Uma nova moral, uma nova ética, novos valores haviam sido cultivados na cabeça das pessoas, graças rqueles jovens dos anos 60. Essa semente está presente ainda hoje dentro de cada um que se permita sonhar e acreditar na realizaçao de seu sonho. Aliás, o sonho nao acabou.. To be one hippie you must believe the peace as the way to decide differences between peoples, ideologies and religions. The way to the peace is with the love and the tolerance. To love means the acceptance of another one while it is, to give to it freedom to it to express itself and not to judge them established in appearances. This is the nucleus of the philosophy of hippie. Thus to be one hippie is not a substance of the dress, of the behavior, of the economic status... It is a philosophical approach to the life that emfatiza the freedom, the peace, the love and a respect for another one and to the land. The way it hippie never died. I believe that he has a little hippie in all we. Geraçao that it believed to be capable to stop a war and to change the world, left a seed that would finish being launched to the four winds, going to reflect itself in the places most distant of the globe. A new moral, new ethics, new values had been cultivated in the head of the people, young favours rqueles of years 60. This seed is present still today inside of that if it allows to dream and to believe realizaçao of its dream. By the way, the dream nao finished. Para ser um hippie você deve acreditar na paz como a maneira resolver diferenças entre povos, ideologias e religiões. A maneira à paz é com o amor e a tolerância. Amar significa a aceitação de outra enquanto é, dar-lhe a liberdade para expressar-se e não os julgar baseados em aparências. Este é o núcleo da filosofia do hippie.
Assim ser um hippie não é uma matéria do vestido, do comportamento, do status econômico…É uma aproximação filosófica à vida que emfatiza a liberdade, a paz, o amor e um respeito para outro e à terra. A maneira do hippie nunca morreu. . Eu acredito que há um pouco hippie em todos nós.
A geraçao que acreditou ser capaz de parar uma guerra e mudar o mundo, deixou uma semente que acabaria sendo lançada aos quatro ventos, indo refletir-se nos lugares mais longínquos do globo. Uma nova moral, uma nova ética, novos valores haviam sido cultivados na cabeça das pessoas, graças rqueles jovens dos anos 60. Essa semente está presente ainda hoje dentro de cada um que se permita sonhar e acreditar na realizaçao de seu sonho. Aliás, o sonho nao acabou..

To be one hippie you must believe the peace as the way to decide differences between peoples, ideologies and religions. The way to the peace is with the love and the tolerance. To love means the acceptance of another one while it is, to give to it freedom to it to express itself and not to judge them established in appearances. This is the nucleus of the philosophy of hippie. Thus to be one hippie is not a substance of the dress, of the behavior, of the economic status… It is a philosophical approach to the life that emfatiza the freedom, the peace, the love and a respect for another one and to the land. The way it hippie never died. I believe that he has a little hippie in all we. Geraçao that it believed to be capable to stop a war and to change the world, left a seed that would finish being launched to the four winds, going to reflect itself in the places most distant of the globe. A new moral, new ethics, new values had been cultivated in the head of the people, young favours rqueles of years 60. This seed is present still today inside of that if it allows to dream and to believe realizaçao of its dream. By the way, the dream nao finished.

]]> By: Deirdre Helfferich http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4338 Deirdre Helfferich Wed, 22 Aug 2007 00:31:44 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4338 Addenda/correction: the British Empire was forced out of India due to financial troubles--but the nonviolence movement motivated the people. Addenda/correction: the British Empire was forced out of India due to financial troubles–but the nonviolence movement motivated the people.

]]> By: Deirdre Helfferich http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4337 Deirdre Helfferich Wed, 22 Aug 2007 00:20:29 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4337 Hmmm...interesting. Rather full of stereotypes. This bit, about the futility of nonviolence, reveals ignorance of history: <blockquote><i>Much like religious beliefs, peace-loving ideology is not compatible with modern society.</i><blockquote>The British Empire was forced out of India by a movement using largely nonviolent techniques. The Danes successfully saved thousands of Jews in World War II by simply refusing to cooperate, by resisting the Nazis in a nonviolent way. The American Civil Rights Movement was largely, and successfully, nonviolent. It's very hard to maintain one's faith in the rightness of one's own violent behavior if the people who are the recipients of one's violence can't be made into "bad guys". Nonviolence works, and "peace-loving" isn't the same thing as "passive", which seems to be the confusion that this author has. She should check out <a>this book by Peter Ackerman and Christopher Kruegler</a> or <a href="http://www.yesmagazine.org" rel="nofollow">Yes! the Magazine of Postive Futures</a>. The hippies WERE right, if some of them were a bit stoned or naive. (But then, so too are some violent types a bit stoned or naive. People are people.) Hmmm…interesting. Rather full of stereotypes. This bit, about the futility of nonviolence, reveals ignorance of history:
Much like religious beliefs, peace-loving ideology is not compatible with modern society.
The British Empire was forced out of India by a movement using largely nonviolent techniques. The Danes successfully saved thousands of Jews in World War II by simply refusing to cooperate, by resisting the Nazis in a nonviolent way. The American Civil Rights Movement was largely, and successfully, nonviolent. It’s very hard to maintain one’s faith in the rightness of one’s own violent behavior if the people who are the recipients of one’s violence can’t be made into “bad guys”. Nonviolence works, and “peace-loving” isn’t the same thing as “passive”, which seems to be the confusion that this author has. She should check out this book by Peter Ackerman and Christopher Kruegler or Yes! the Magazine of Postive Futures. The hippies WERE right, if some of them were a bit stoned or naive. (But then, so too are some violent types a bit stoned or naive. People are people.)

]]> By: JBPM http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4336 JBPM Tue, 21 Aug 2007 21:46:16 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4336 Look what I've retrieved from the dumpster. Yet another insanely uninformed quote: "Hippiedom’s major contribution thus far has been stifling political correctness, the bane of every thinking person’s existence." They've actually made a few other contributions (and I'm not including carrot cake). Mark Morford, columnist for SF Gate, pointed out in a really great article ("The Hippies Were Right! Green homes? Organic food? Nature is good? Time to give the ol' tie-dyers some respect," SF Gate, 5-2-2007) that many of the cultural values we now take for granted had their start in the hippie countercultures of the 60s and 70s. Now recycling, eating less meat, organic farming, etc. aren't panaceas by any means, but they are also some pretty cool contributions. Look what I’ve retrieved from the dumpster. Yet another insanely uninformed quote: “Hippiedom’s major contribution thus far has been stifling political correctness, the bane of every thinking person’s existence.”

They’ve actually made a few other contributions (and I’m not including carrot cake). Mark Morford, columnist for SF Gate, pointed out in a really great article (”The Hippies Were Right! Green homes? Organic food? Nature is good? Time to give the ol’ tie-dyers some respect,” SF Gate, 5-2-2007) that many of the cultural values we now take for granted had their start in the hippie countercultures of the 60s and 70s. Now recycling, eating less meat, organic farming, etc. aren’t panaceas by any means, but they are also some pretty cool contributions.

]]> By: JBPM http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4335 JBPM Tue, 21 Aug 2007 21:38:09 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4335 "Much like religious beliefs, peace-loving ideology is not compatible with modern society." Care to back either of these assertions up? The arrogance of using such broad brush strokes would be breathtaking if it weren't also so cliched. Maybe the reason we on the left in the US are so fucked is because we continually denounce one another for our ideological divergences instead of agreeing to work with one another and with the non-aligned (and, more often than not, religious) "masses." If we actually want to make a difference, it seems that means we'll need to link peaceniks with non-peaceniks, Christians with atheists, young people with old folks, etc. Oh who am I kidding? My emphasis on "both-and" probably just reveals my peace-loving naivete and religious incompatibility with modern society. Got to get back to dumpster diving! “Much like religious beliefs, peace-loving ideology is not compatible with modern society.”

Care to back either of these assertions up?

The arrogance of using such broad brush strokes would be breathtaking if it weren’t also so cliched. Maybe the reason we on the left in the US are so fucked is because we continually denounce one another for our ideological divergences instead of agreeing to work with one another and with the non-aligned (and, more often than not, religious) “masses.”

If we actually want to make a difference, it seems that means we’ll need to link peaceniks with non-peaceniks, Christians with atheists, young people with old folks, etc.

Oh who am I kidding? My emphasis on “both-and” probably just reveals my peace-loving naivete and religious incompatibility with modern society. Got to get back to dumpster diving!

]]> By: mandt http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4330 mandt Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:28:43 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4330 Lucky you Stacie, I've not seen a hippy in over thirty years nor a hobo in over forty. I thought they were an endangered species. Aren't you special! Lucky you Stacie, I’ve not seen a hippy in over thirty years nor a hobo in over forty. I thought they were an endangered species. Aren’t you special!

]]> By: Robert B. Livingston http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4326 Robert B. Livingston Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:58:16 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4326 Stinging points make perfect sense to me, but I am not ready to adopt any politics of resignation. It's too easy to lump the true peace and love troops with dumpster divers and other economy misfits and victims. What does that say about us and them? Isolation is preferable to keeping company with bad people-- but that is an extreme one turns to when no one good is left. To be sure, we need more creativity and capital (moral and tangible) in the peace movement. The most memorable line in this essay is "You can’t win a game that you refuse to play, and merely refusing to participate does not render the game nonexistent." But it works both ways too? If life is a series of games-- and I am not wholly convinced-- then I'll choose peace and love. Soul Power may not win Paper, Scissors, Rock everytime, but I wouldn't play without it. San Francisco Stinging points make perfect sense to me, but I am not ready to adopt any politics of resignation.

It’s too easy to lump the true peace and love troops with dumpster divers and other economy misfits and victims. What does that say about us and them? Isolation is preferable to keeping company with bad people– but that is an extreme one turns to when no one good is left.

To be sure, we need more creativity and capital (moral and tangible) in the peace movement.

The most memorable line in this essay is “You can’t win a game that you refuse to play, and merely refusing to participate does not render the game nonexistent.”

But it works both ways too?

If life is a series of games– and I am not wholly convinced– then I’ll choose peace and love. Soul Power may not win Paper, Scissors, Rock everytime, but I wouldn’t play without it.

San Francisco

]]> By: gerald spezio http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4318 gerald spezio Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:36:09 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/08/a-dream-deferred/#comment-4318 Stacie, doan you worry! David Korten says that the Goddess is coming any day now - free shoes and earth community for everybody. Rianne Eisler told David and David is telling us. The Goddess was in complete control 5000 years ago, but she was mysteriously removed from benevolent power (Shazam!) by too many enemas and too few animuses administered by patriarchal goons. The patriarchal goons will get their comeuppance, too. Doan you worry. Stacie, doan you worry! David Korten says that the Goddess is coming any day now – free shoes and earth community for everybody. Rianne Eisler told David and David is telling us.

The Goddess was in complete control 5000 years ago, but she was mysteriously removed from benevolent power (Shazam!) by too many enemas and too few animuses administered by patriarchal goons. The patriarchal goons will get their comeuppance, too. Doan you worry.

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