Comments on: A Profile of Worker Control in Argentina http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/06/a-profile-of-worker-control-in-argentina/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:03:40 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: dlarsen http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/06/a-profile-of-worker-control-in-argentina/#comment-1953 dlarsen Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:07:47 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/06/a-profile-of-worker-control-in-argentina/#comment-1953 it does seem unjust to pay all workers the same amount. the self-management of the workplace by productive workers is essential, though difficult; but to pay all labour at the same rate is unfair given the circumstances. different skill levels and training should deserve different full compensation, unless you are living in a completely libertarian communist system where people only take what they need and there is much surplus. argentina (and most of the world) is obviously not there yet. so in the meantime, a collectivist or mutualist system with proportional wages for work completed including experience/training would help correct problems until people's culture and educational understanding became more fully socialist. the idea for everyone to be paid the same seems a bit dictorial and reminisicent of Stalinist "communism" (who of course made most people have the same wages except for the elite) although there are no party bosses usurping the system in this workplace it seems. jsalvait brings up many good questions that should be addressed as well. it does seem unjust to pay all workers the same amount. the self-management of the workplace by productive workers is essential, though difficult; but to pay all labour at the same rate is unfair given the circumstances. different skill levels and training should deserve different full compensation, unless you are living in a completely libertarian communist system where people only take what they need and there is much surplus. argentina (and most of the world) is obviously not there yet. so in the meantime, a collectivist or mutualist system with proportional wages for work completed including experience/training would help correct problems until people’s culture and educational understanding became more fully socialist. the idea for everyone to be paid the same seems a bit dictorial and reminisicent of Stalinist “communism” (who of course made most people have the same wages except for the elite) although there are no party bosses usurping the system in this workplace it seems. jsalvait brings up many good questions that should be addressed as well.

]]> By: jsalvati http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/06/a-profile-of-worker-control-in-argentina/#comment-1784 jsalvati Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:42:35 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/06/a-profile-of-worker-control-in-argentina/#comment-1784 You leave out so many important details! Where the heck did the owner go? He just up and left his factory? If the business was so profitable that he was able to pay himself much more than the workers why the heck did fire them all, ending the business? And how did the workers gain control of the factory? did they buy it? was it just abandoned? Also, it seems a little silly to pay workers in training the same amount as experienced, productive workers, especially since it apparently leads to many conflicts. You leave out so many important details! Where the heck did the owner go? He just up and left his factory? If the business was so profitable that he was able to pay himself much more than the workers why the heck did fire them all, ending the business? And how did the workers gain control of the factory? did they buy it? was it just abandoned?
Also, it seems a little silly to pay workers in training the same amount as experienced, productive workers, especially since it apparently leads to many conflicts.

]]> By: Jeremy Wells http://dissidentvoice.org/2007/06/a-profile-of-worker-control-in-argentina/#comment-1774 Jeremy Wells Sat, 23 Jun 2007 05:54:47 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/06/a-profile-of-worker-control-in-argentina/#comment-1774 Are there lessons here for American labor movement and working people? The decrepit state of labor union leadership is such that worker management or control or cooperative management is ever discussed. As U.S. companies try to go chapter 11 to get out of paying for health care and pensions, etc. the companies should be nationalized and put under worker control before they are liquidated. Perhaps entire industries (such as energy (oil and nuclear) should be nationalized and then transitioned under worker management. Polluting industries that refuse to clean up their act, should be taken out of the hands of owners who refuse to transition, and then converted and run as a public sector business with worker management. etc. The current U.S. union leadership is so utterly a part of corporate management, nothing can be expected from them. A new labor party to replace the Democratic party should be created with demands such as above. Top of the list demand - end wars and military-industrial complex budget reduced by 50 percent, retrain workers and companies to produce new public transportation, affordable mass housing, rebuild infrastructure. Don't dump working people but retrain when not ready for retirement. Ultimately ... to end corporate capitalism and privatization of the federal government, to end wars, to start on ending Global Warming, some kind of democratic socialism is essential. Are there lessons here for American labor movement and working people? The decrepit state of labor union leadership is such that worker management or control or cooperative management is ever discussed. As U.S. companies try to go chapter 11 to get out of paying for health care and pensions, etc. the companies should be nationalized and put under worker control before they are liquidated. Perhaps entire industries (such as energy (oil and nuclear) should be nationalized and then transitioned under worker management. Polluting industries that refuse to clean up their act, should be taken out of the hands of owners who refuse to transition, and then converted and run as a public sector business with worker management. etc.
The current U.S. union leadership is so utterly a part of corporate management, nothing can be expected from them. A new labor party to replace the Democratic party should be created with demands such as above. Top of the list demand – end wars and military-industrial complex budget reduced by 50 percent, retrain workers and companies to produce new public transportation, affordable mass housing, rebuild infrastructure. Don’t dump working people but retrain when not ready for retirement.

Ultimately … to end corporate capitalism and privatization of the federal government, to end wars, to start on ending Global Warming, some kind of democratic socialism is essential.

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